From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 3 12:08:50 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GqpG5-0VJ000-06-Dmw.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 12:08:50 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GqpG5-0VJ000-06-Dmw; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:11:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GqpG5-0VJ000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:11:45 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GqpG5-0004ok-8G for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:11:45 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A1DDF5422EA; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:10:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01584-02; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:10:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D8DB54234B; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:10:52 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 06:10:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0EBB45422EA for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:10:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01177-09 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9D0B75422E7 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpc.rayhome (dsl89-213-14-224.as15444.net [89.213.14.224]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with SMTP id kB3BAjKj025364 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:10:53 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Favre To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 10:50:29 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 881 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@rayfavre.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article , David Pilling wrote: > >The documents - both the Impression original and the OPro > >conversion - are the !LaBella Manual which is on my web-site at: > > > >http://rayfavre.me.uk/dwapps.html Sorry about the www > A bit more guidance please. I have these documents, the image > appears to be 100% in both the Ovation Pro and Impression (loaded > into Ovation Pro) versions. The problem pages print OK (to > Sprinter). Again, answering both Martin's and your points..... As my first posting said, I'm using !Printers 1.62 - the dpi is 300 for my LJ1110. There are two issues - maybe unrelated. 1) The first is that those two particular graphics items (one on each of the two pages) cause a printing error with me - only on the OPro converted version - although all the 40-odd other pics, similarly-derived, print OK. I have just tried it on Sprinter, which *does* print OK. So does this mean it is a !Printers issue? 2) The second issue only arose when trying to solve the above by saving out the graphics as drawfiles from the OPro version; deleting them from the document; then dragging the drawfiles back in. When dragged back in the pics both now appear at 70.55% (!) size rather than their original 100%. Why? -- Regards from Ray Favre. Email at: Web site at: Tel: (+44) (0)1895 444410 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 3 12:08:51 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GqpUK-0mZknw-01-DYh.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 12:08:51 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GqpUK-0mZknw-01-DYh; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:26:28 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GqpUK-0mZknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:26:28 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GqpUJ-00059w-SK for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:26:28 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5049A5423AF; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03553-01; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 15F95542362; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 06:24:45 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BEE08542377 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03352-07 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from pih-relay05.plus.net (pih-relay05.plus.net [212.159.14.132]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8C413542379 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [80.229.143.2] (helo=radstock) by pih-relay05.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1GqpTT-0006rd-78 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:25:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:25:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e8f67c9e7chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.12) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 882 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre wrote: > 2) The second issue only arose when trying to solve the above by > saving out the graphics as drawfiles from the OPro version; deleting > them from the document; then dragging the drawfiles back in. When > dragged back in the pics both now appear at 70.55% (!) size rather > than their original 100%. Why? Was the original pic being clipped by the frame (i.e. only the central two thirds actually being displayed)? When OPro imports (or reimports) a picture it usually 'scales to fit' the frame. It might be worth loading the original export (sprite in a drawfile) into !DPlingScan if you have it, since that will tell you the actual size of the sprite, and immediately show whether the original sprite has a lot of white space around it. I have found on a very few occasions over the years that when printing from OPro a page with images that are substantially oversize for the frame and are being clipped, that the printing screws up by either (a) printing bits of the picture outside the frame (b) on my Epson inkjet the print fails completely. I should stress that this was a rare occurence, I think each cured by going back and cropping the original in e.g. DPlingScan and reloading into the frame. Chris... -- Chris Johnson From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 3 12:08:52 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gqpe0-1hjknw-02-DP1.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 12:08:52 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gqpe0-1hjknw-02-DP1; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:36:28 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gqpe0-1hjknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:36:28 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gqpe0-0000Ym-0Z for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:36:28 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6007D5423B2; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05221-03; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 22A8354239B; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 06:34:54 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 557DA5421D4 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05017-05 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E8CEF5421D2 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 06:34:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpc.rayhome (dsl89-213-14-224.as15444.net [89.213.14.224]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with SMTP id kB3BZTO6025902 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:35:37 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Favre To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:35:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e8f68ae29ray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e8f67c9e7chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f67c9e7chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 883 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@rayfavre.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e8f67c9e7chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com>, Chris Johnson wrote: > In article <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre > wrote: > > 2) The second issue only arose when trying to solve the above by > > saving out the graphics as drawfiles from the OPro version; > > deleting them from the document; then dragging the drawfiles back > > in. When dragged back in the pics both now appear at 70.55% (!) > > size rather than their original 100%. Why? > Was the original pic being clipped by the frame (i.e. only the > central two thirds actually being displayed)? When OPro imports (or > reimports) a picture it usually 'scales to fit' the frame. Thanks for your interest. No, all the pic contents were/are being shown. (And the frame in which it is embedded in the text is much wider than the 100% bounding box size of the graphic.) > It might be worth loading the original export (sprite in a > drawfile) into !DPlingScan if you have it, since that will tell you > the actual size of the sprite, and immediately show whether the > original sprite has a lot of white space around it. I've just tried that. There is no extra white space and the size is as expected (and same as drawfile). -- Regards from Ray Favre. Email at: Web site at: Tel: (+44) (0)1895 444410 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 3 14:18:21 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gqs9b-4JpVbs-01-AtQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 14:18:21 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gqs9b-4JpVbs-01-AtQ; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 14:17:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gqs9b-4JpVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 14:17:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gqs9b-0006ON-Hd for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 14:17:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A9AF4542B80; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 09:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01566-05; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 09:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E11515429CD; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 09:16:20 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 09:15:38 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8F445542B1D for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 09:15:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01177-10 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 09:15:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5BC025429AE for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 09:15:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Gqs8r-0008LN-Ex for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 14:16:29 +0000 Message-ID: <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 14:14:57 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 884 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre writes >As my first posting said, I'm using !Printers 1.62 - the dpi is 300 >for my LJ1110. >I have just tried it on Sprinter, which *does* print OK. So does this >mean it is a !Printers issue? Yes. However as far as I know there is likely to be little difference between Sprinter and a standard RISC OS driver for the LJ. I'd be happy if you discovered some components from Turbo drivers are hanging around in !Printers 8-) >2) The second issue only arose when trying to solve the above by >saving out the graphics as drawfiles from the OPro version; deleting >them from the document; then dragging the drawfiles back in. When >dragged back in the pics both now appear at 70.55% (!) size rather >than their original 100%. Why? It doesn't happen for me. If I take the Impression version of the manual, load it into Ovation Pro, the pictures have a scale of 100%. I save a picture to disc, delete the original, and then drag/drop back into the frame. I get a picture with a scale of 100%. It's interesting that the scale is exactly 100% - presumably you tweeked the frame to match the picture size. We're looking at a couple of pictures of a two level menu tree (right?), interesting they are actually a few pixels different in size. They're also not huge sprites - the original theory was about Turbo drivers and lots of pixels - doesn't really add up for these images. One snag you get with screen shots is "left hand wastage". At some point the decision was taken to not support it in RISC OS, however the SWI's which capture the screen memory kept on producing sprites with it. ISTR the latest version of my Snapper program gets rid of it. I have used an Iyonix for these tests. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 3 17:34:18 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gqu33-1hUGPo-05-8zy.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 17:34:18 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gqu33-1hUGPo-05-8zy; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:18:37 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gqu33-1hUGPo-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:18:37 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gqu32-0000gZ-IY for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:18:37 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BF0DE544499; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30223-04; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 870385445EF; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:17:43 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:17:02 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 27D0254457A for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30072-05 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BA1A25444FC for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:17:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpc.rayhome (dsl89-213-14-224.as15444.net [89.213.14.224]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with SMTP id kB3GHYpq032649 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 16:17:41 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Favre To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:17:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 885 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@rayfavre.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > In message <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre > writes > >As my first posting said, I'm using !Printers 1.62 - the dpi is > >300 for my LJ1110. I have just tried it on Sprinter, which *does* > >print OK. So does this mean it is a !Printers issue? > Yes. However as far as I know there is likely to be little > difference between Sprinter and a standard RISC OS driver for the > LJ. I'd be happy if you discovered some components from Turbo > drivers are hanging around in !Printers 8-) OK. Let's not spend more of your valuable time on that topic - although I'm still bemused as to why 40 other pics in the same doc will print *and* the two errant pics will print when they have been 'saved out, deleted and dragged back'. I'll survive. :-) > >2) The second issue only arose when trying to solve the above by > >saving out the graphics as drawfiles from the OPro version; > >deleting them from the document; then dragging the drawfiles back > >in. When dragged back in the pics both now appear at 70.55% (!) > >size rather than their original 100%. Why? > It doesn't happen for me. If I take the Impression version of the > manual, load it into Ovation Pro, the pictures have a scale of 100%. (Yes, that's the same as here. The unwanted re-scaling only happens with the action below.) > I save a picture to disc, delete the original, and then drag/drop > back into the frame. I get a picture with a scale of 100%. Well, that's really odd. I get a reduction to 70% approx and it is repeatable. I just tried it again in case I was dreaming. > It's interesting that the scale is exactly 100% - presumably you > tweeked the frame to match the picture size. We're looking at a > couple of pictures of a two level menu tree (right?), interesting > they are actually a few pixels different in size. Yes, those are the pics. (I'm not surprised at the size difference 'cos !Paint requires me to drag a rectangle around the menus and it's probably impossible to get the same rectangle each time. At my age I'm proud that it is a small difference!) Why wouldn't the scale be 100%? The pic is embedded in the text so I did not create a specific frame for it - I simply dragged it into the text after creating an empty line with centred justification. (My normal operation for Manual pics.) As there is plenty of room for the pic at 100%, isn't that what would normally happen - with the pic frame being sized automatically for that? I've only ever before seen auto-reductions when the pic is too big for the underlying text frame in which the embedding occurs - or, of course, for non-embedded pics which are larger than the frame into which they're put. > They're also not huge sprites - the original theory was about Turbo > drivers and lots of pixels - doesn't really add up for these images. > One snag you get with screen shots is "left hand wastage". At some > point the decision was taken to not support it in RISC OS, however > the SWI's which capture the screen memory kept on producing sprites > with it. ISTR the latest version of my Snapper program gets rid of > it. > I have used an Iyonix for these tests. Interestingly, the guy who alerted me uses both Iyonix and RPC and got printing problems with both - via a network. But I don't know his !Printers version yet. ------- I have to say that the combination of the following factors:- - the fact that a DDL of the selection of pages 64 & 65 (immediately after conversion from Impression) will not load - even if they do print in Sprinter); - the unwanted auto-reduction on 'saving out, delete, drag back' (which does *not* happen with, say, the first pic on Page 64); - the fact these pics *then* print OK; - the fact that OPro sometimes objects when I then try to make the pics 100% again; makes me think that there must be something odd about just those two pics immediately after their conversion from the Impression version...... N'est-ce pas? But it is not important enough for you to spend more time on it. Many thanks. -- Regards from Ray Favre. Email at: Web site at: Tel: (+44) (0)1895 444410 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 3 20:18:36 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gqxjn-151000-04-Dpk.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:18:36 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gqxjn-151000-04-Dpk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:14:59 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gqxjn-151000-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:14:59 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GqxjH-0003zs-ND for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:14:59 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6C47E543900; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:08:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09805-08; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:08:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 37DC55435AF; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:08:29 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 15:07:46 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6A64454600B for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09722-01 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from pih-relay04.plus.net (pih-relay04.plus.net [212.159.14.131]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EDCC1546002 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:07:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from [80.229.143.2] (helo=radstock) by pih-relay04.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1Gqw0Y-0004mn-FR for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:24:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:24:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e8f8e1b91chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.12) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 886 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre wrote: > Why wouldn't the scale be 100%? The pic is embedded in the text so > I did not create a specific frame for it - I simply dragged it into > the text after creating an empty line with centred justification. > (My normal operation for Manual pics.) Ahhh - I didn't realise you were using embedded frames. OPro usually scales down pictures when dragging and dropping directly into the text. David can explain the rationale for this, but I assume it is to prevent the possibility of the embedded frame overflowing the master frame, since this used to lead to all sorts of problems as OPro tried to reflow the document. Chris... -- Chris Johnson From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 3 20:38:37 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GqxxP-1n0GPo-05-Dc8.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:38:37 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GqxxP-1n0GPo-05-Dc8; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:29:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GqxxP-1n0GPo-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:29:03 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GqxxO-0006l5-FP for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:29:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1397754660F; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:28:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15070-02-2; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:28:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 895D05465C9; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:28:07 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 15:27:26 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F243D5465CE for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14883-02 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-fallback-95.mail.demon.net (anchor-fallback-95.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.82]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BB02E5465D3 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]:3259 "EHLO anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net") by anchor-fallback-95.mail.demon.net with ESMTP id S816624AbWLCSWP (ORCPT ); Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:22:15 +0000 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Gqvy2-00098i-66 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:21:35 +0000 Message-ID: <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:19:55 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 887 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre writes I've not been thinking about this problem the way that you have... If I load the Impression document into Ovation Pro, then find the *embedded frames* and delete the *frames*, then take one of the pictures and drop it into the text story (thus creating a new embedded frame) then yes I get a frame which is about 70% of the size. However the issue is then how Ovation Pro handles creating embedded frames compared to how Impression does - there's no reason why they should be the same. Probably 100% is in this case more useful but 70% is not a sign of anything being wrong. I can believe that there is some oddity in the document conversion - perhaps in the original document or the OP filter that leads to a corrupt document. Your comment about changing the size might point at that - again for an *embedded frame* because changing the size of the *frame* means the document will reflow. Changing the size of a picture in a fixed frame is by comparison a harmless operation. To put it another way, you might have tried to do what I thought you were doing, select the picture in the frame, delete the picture and then import the picture again into the existing frame. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Mon Dec 4 12:07:35 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gr0h7-0ZQGPo-03-AsQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:07:35 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gr0h7-0ZQGPo-03-AsQ; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:24:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gr0h7-0ZQGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:24:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gr0h6-0000xz-OC for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:24:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F2D1E546B58; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20611-07; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 93252546F45; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:22:46 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DBE6D546B58 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:22:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20397-04 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:22:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.freeserve.com (smtp1.wanadoo.co.uk [193.252.22.158]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 54D82546F00 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 18:22:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp1.freeserve.com (mwinf3003 [172.22.159.25]) by mwinf3010.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 119335C0573E for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:16:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3003.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 9B2041C002E4 for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:16:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from rpc (user-514c5024.l3.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk [81.76.80.36]) by mwinf3003.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 8162C1C002ED for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:16:40 +0100 (CET) X-ME-UUID: 20061203181640530.8162C1C002ED@mwinf3003.me.freeserve.com Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Alan Adams X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.10 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:15:50 GMT Message-ID: References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.29 (MsgServe/3.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 888 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> Ray Favre wrote: > In article , David Pilling > wrote: >> >The documents - both the Impression original and the OPro >> >conversion - are the !LaBella Manual which is on my web-site at: >> > >> >http://rayfavre.me.uk/dwapps.html > > Sorry about the www > >> A bit more guidance please. I have these documents, the image >> appears to be 100% in both the Ovation Pro and Impression (loaded >> into Ovation Pro) versions. The problem pages print OK (to >> Sprinter). > > Again, answering both Martin's and your points..... > > As my first posting said, I'm using !Printers 1.62 - the dpi is 300 > for my LJ1110. > > There are two issues - maybe unrelated. > > 1) The first is that those two particular graphics items (one on each > of the two pages) cause a printing error with me - only on the OPro > converted version - although all the 40-odd other pics, > similarly-derived, print OK. > > I have just tried it on Sprinter, which *does* print OK. So does this > mean it is a !Printers issue? > > 2) The second issue only arose when trying to solve the above by > saving out the graphics as drawfiles from the OPro version; deleting > them from the document; then dragging the drawfiles back in. When > dragged back in the pics both now appear at 70.55% (!) size rather > than their original 100%. Why? A useful trick when replacimg graphics in OPro - triple-click on the picture first to launch the Modify Picture dialog. While it is open, drop the new picture on top of the old one, which replaces it but fitting it into the frame. Close the dialog, which applies the scaling and offset from the old picture to the new one. Obviously it is most useful when the replacement is a version of the original, as here. Alan -- Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/ From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Mon Dec 4 12:27:32 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GrCmz-1kvGPo-01-Fpa.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:27:32 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GrCmz-1kvGPo-01-Fpa; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:19:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GrCmz-1kvGPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:19:17 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GrCmz-0001fd-44 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:19:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D1C2654754D; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 07:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11827-07-2; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 07:18:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DE1035479CF; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 07:18:22 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:17:42 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EF66F547455 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 07:17:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11654-05 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 07:17:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9311154737D for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 07:17:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpc.rayhome (dsl82-163-138-110.as15444.net [82.163.138.110]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with SMTP id kB4CIGTO031097 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:18:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Favre To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 12:01:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 889 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@rayfavre.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > In message <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre > writes > I've not been thinking about this problem the way that you have... That's the trouble with pesky users: they're always doing something awkward! :-) > If I load the Impression document into Ovation Pro, then find the > *embedded frames* and delete the *frames*, then take one of the > pictures and drop it into the text story (thus creating a new > embedded frame) then yes I get a frame which is about 70% of the > size. > However the issue is then how Ovation Pro handles creating embedded > frames compared to how Impression does - there's no reason why > they should be the same. Probably 100% is in this case more useful > but 70% is not a sign of anything being wrong. Ah! That was my misunderstanding. I thought that OPro always tried to make the dragged drawfile 100% if there is space for it and only reduced if there is a need to. (And that was certainly the way I had always recalled it happening before - but my memory is no doubt at fault.) > I can believe that there is some oddity in the document conversion > - perhaps in the original document or the OP filter that leads to > a corrupt document. Your comment about changing the size might > point at that - again for an *embedded frame* because changing the > size of the *frame* means the document will reflow. Changing the > size of a picture in a fixed frame is by comparison a harmless > operation. Yes, some of the clues do still point at the document conversion. I'll leave you to look sometime .... > To put it another way, you might have tried to do what I thought > you were doing, select the picture in the frame, delete the > picture and then import the picture again into the existing frame. I have now tried that - although it's not an operational sequence that I have ever used before (always learning). And it *does* retain the 100% scale. Thanks, I'll remember that. ----------- OK, I'm content to leave things here. Again, thanks for your time - and also the interest others have shown. -- Regards from Ray Favre. Email at: Web site at: Tel: (+44) (0)1895 444410 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Mon Dec 4 13:57:42 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GrEGF-035knw-05-EMK.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:57:42 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GrEGF-035knw-05-EMK; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:53:35 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GrEGF-035knw-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:53:35 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GrEGE-0007ij-G2 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:53:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3B082547CA1; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03286-10; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:52:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CC340547CDB; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:52:40 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 04 Dec 2006 08:51:59 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 59CBD547CA1 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03112-08 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 271B9547C96 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:51:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GrEFV-000AWt-I7 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 13:52:50 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:51:24 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 890 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre writes >> I've not been thinking about this problem the way that you have... >That's the trouble with pesky users: they're always doing something >awkward! :-) In this case the programmers point of view is very different to the users. >I have now tried that - although it's not an operational sequence >that I have ever used before (always learning). And it *does* retain >the 100% scale. Thanks, I'll remember that. The scale is 100% because the frame is exactly the right size (which we worked out was due to it being embedded). What is interesting is if this way of replacing the picture fixes the printing problem. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 11:42:24 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GrMvC-2Yoknw-02-EDt.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:42:24 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GrMvC-2Yoknw-02-EDt; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:08:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GrMvC-2Yoknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:08:26 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GrMv8-0003D1-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:08:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C99EB54762D; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 18:07:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16696-03; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 18:07:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9914F548008; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 18:07:16 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 04 Dec 2006 18:06:34 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 19EAD54762D for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 18:06:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16322-05 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 18:06:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 61A7F547EC9 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 18:06:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpc.rayhome (dsl82-163-138-110.as15444.net [82.163.138.110]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with SMTP id kB4N6u8S014945 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2006 23:07:04 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Favre To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 23:02:17 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 891 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@rayfavre.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article , David Pilling wrote: > >I have now tried that - although it's not an operational sequence > >that I have ever used before (always learning). And it *does* > >retain the 100% scale. Thanks, I'll remember that. > The scale is 100% because the frame is exactly the right size > (which we worked out was due to it being embedded). What is > interesting is if this way of replacing the picture fixes the > printing problem. I didn't try printing it when initially trying the above, so I've just tried it again and the same old printing problem occurs - yet replacing the pic 'my way' does cure it (albeit with the unwanted reduction to 70%). I hope that offers you some clues .... -- Regards from Ray Favre. Email at: Web site at: Tel: (+44) (0)1895 444410 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 12:02:19 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GrYrK-15vVbs-07-AoH.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:02:19 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GrYrK-15vVbs-07-AoH; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:53:14 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GrYrK-15vVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:53:14 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GrYrH-0000Q6-RZ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:53:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5EB0B547714; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 06:52:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14190-05; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 06:52:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2406C5481C5; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 06:52:17 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 06:51:35 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A57DB547D52 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 06:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14064-03 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 06:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2C36A547CD1 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 06:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GrYqX-0004cr-BU for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:52:25 +0000 Message-ID: <0F4hHyAr0VdFFwRX@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:51:07 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 892 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre writes >I didn't try printing it when initially trying the above, so I've >just tried it again and the same old printing problem occurs - yet >replacing the pic 'my way' does cure it (albeit with the unwanted >reduction to 70%). That is interesting - it points the blame away from the actual image (left hand wastages etc.) and towards the document structure. Even so it is an odd error in this context. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 16:32:37 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GrdDW-2Aiknw-03-Eyb.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:32:37 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GrdDW-2Aiknw-03-Eyb; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:32:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GrdDW-2Aiknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:32:26 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GrdDV-0001RJ-AK for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:32:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3EF80546F97; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17963-07; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:31:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EF23C546C87; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:31:30 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:30:48 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0D68754918B for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:30:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17768-01-11 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:30:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from pih-relay04.plus.net (pih-relay04.plus.net [212.159.14.131]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6985D54917E for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from [80.229.143.2] (helo=radstock) by pih-relay04.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1GrdCg-0005tn-Ah for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:31:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:31:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e908b78b6chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk><4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk><4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.12) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 893 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre wrote: > In article , David Pilling > wrote: > > > >I have now tried that - although it's not an operational sequence > > >that I have ever used before (always learning). And it *does* > > >retain the 100% scale. Thanks, I'll remember that. > > The scale is 100% because the frame is exactly the right size > > (which we worked out was due to it being embedded). What is > > interesting is if this way of replacing the picture fixes the > > printing problem. > I didn't try printing it when initially trying the above, so I've > just tried it again and the same old printing problem occurs - yet > replacing the pic 'my way' does cure it (albeit with the unwanted > reduction to 70%). > I hope that offers you some clues .... I have now given this a go. Printing to my Lexmark b&w laser printer using the level 2 postscript driver resulted in a normal print operation without any problem. Changing the destination to my Epson C84 inkjet (printing via GimpPrint) immediately produces the error message -------------------------------------------------------------------- 05 Dec 15:21:38 000 0000098A: Error from Ovation Pro: Overflow while transforming point (print cancelled) -------------------------------------------------------------------- Changing the destination to PrintPDF caused mayhem. The print appeared to proceed for a while then we had: 05 Dec 15:27:08 000 00000000: Error from Ovation Pro: OvationPro has suffered an internal error type=5. Canceling this gave a cascade of error messages from each task in turn 05 Dec 15:27:16 000 000000DC: Error from WimpBar 2: Printer drivers cannot handle VDU 4 characters (print cancelled) at 350 05 Dec 15:27:25 002 000005C7: Error from Organizer: Printer drivers cannot handle VDU 4 characters (print cancelled) (2060). 05 Dec 15:27:28 000 000005C7: Error from Pluto: Printer drivers cannot handle VDU 4 characters (print cancelled) 05 Dec 15:27:28 000 00800E00: Error from (unknown): Internal error, trap while in trap handler: Internal error: abort on data transfer at &FC030AF0, pc = 000746A0: registers at 0006ED24 This last error caused a total freeze of the Iyonix, requiring two hardware resets to bring the machine back up again. The odd thing was that when the reboot was finished (Printers is run automatically during boot) PrintPDF immediately tried to 'print' (i.e. save a disc file) of what was still in its input buffer. This errored part way through, but a pdf file was saved to disc. Opening this file showed p. 64 had been printed completely and correctly, but p 65 was missing from the original two page print job. I do have the error status report from GhostScript (used by PrintPDF), but I doubt it adds much. Chris... -- Chris Johnson From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 17:02:34 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GrdeY-0wKVbs-07-EXZ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:02:34 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GrdeY-0wKVbs-07-EXZ; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:00:22 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GrdeY-0wKVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:00:22 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GrdeR-00017Z-SG for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:00:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BBD92548F75; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25780-03-2; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4AED5548FA3; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 11:58:33 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 41621548F76 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25265-01 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CB228548ED0 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 11:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from [91.64.216.193] (helo=bach) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1Grddc3uWu-0008SW; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:59:25 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.32 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:59:16 +0100 Message-ID: <5b058e904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk><4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk><4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e908b78b6chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <4e908b78b6chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.12 (MsgServe/3.25) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e4772095be5169fd0e120a52273e9d27 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 894 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e908b78b6chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> Chris Johnson wrote: > I have now given this a go. Printing to my Lexmark b&w laser printer > using the level 2 postscript driver resulted in a normal print > operation without any problem. > > Changing the destination to my Epson C84 inkjet (printing via > GimpPrint) immediately produces the error message > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > 05 Dec 15:21:38 000 0000098A: Error from Ovation Pro: Overflow while > transforming point (print cancelled) > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Many thanks - the observation that the error occurs on your machine as well and with Gimp-Print was very useful because it allowed me to finally see and confirm the error myself and I found out a few interesting things (see my other posting). > Changing the destination to PrintPDF caused mayhem. The print > appeared to proceed for a while then we had: > > 05 Dec 15:27:08 000 00000000: Error from Ovation Pro: OvationPro has > suffered an internal error type=5. That is a red herring. The problem is simply that after a print has failed in the way you describe above, the NEXT print causes the Type5. If you tried printing to PrintPDF before printing to any other destination you should notice that it works fine. After all, from the application's point of view PrintPDF is just the same as PostScript2, which, as you observed, works fine, too. > Canceling this gave a cascade of error messages from each task in turn > > 05 Dec 15:27:16 000 000000DC: Error from WimpBar 2: Printer drivers > cannot handle VDU 4 characters (print cancelled) at 350 ... all of these are not relevant. When there is an abort during printing that prevents the application from closing down the print operation correctly, this cascade of errors is perfectly normal (though applications should normally try to clean up properly even when a fatal abort happens - David, I guess, in your signal handler you could at least call PDriver_AbortJob to shut down the printing system). > The odd thing was that when the reboot was finished (Printers is run > automatically during boot) PrintPDF immediately tried to 'print' > (i.e. save a disc file) of what was still in its input buffer. Not odd at all, this is to be expected but it is bound to fail because the printing had not completed so the PostScript file is truncated. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 17:32:44 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gre14-3cuknw-06-EB3.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:32:44 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gre14-3cuknw-06-EB3; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:23:38 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gre14-3cuknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:23:38 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gre13-0001nE-RJ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:23:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5E284549166; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:22:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31444-05-3; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:22:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D20B6549218; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:22:43 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:22:01 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B2A205491EF for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:22:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31320-04-2 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:22:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 65C775491DD for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:22:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from rpc.rayhome (dsl82-163-138-110.as15444.net [82.163.138.110]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with SMTP id kB5HMWY2014812 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:22:40 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Favre To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:22:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 Message-ID: <4e90902706ray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <0F4hHyAr0VdFFwRX@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8f649604ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <5drixqBhvtcFFw5c@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8f8287aaray@rayfavre.me.uk> <6hRieMCLVxcFFw7K@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4e8feef32eray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk> <0F4hHyAr0VdFFwRX@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.02f (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 895 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@rayfavre.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <0F4hHyAr0VdFFwRX@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > In message <4e902b6b6dray@rayfavre.me.uk>, Ray Favre > writes > >I didn't try printing it when initially trying the above, so I've > >just tried it again and the same old printing problem occurs - yet > >replacing the pic 'my way' does cure it (albeit with the unwanted > >reduction to 70%). > That is interesting - it points the blame away from the actual > image (left hand wastages etc.) and towards the document structure. > Even so it is an odd error in this context. O.K. I decided to try the pragmatic approach. I created a brand new Impression template from scratch, imported the styles from the old one and cut & paste the contents - thus creating a brand new Manual. I converted it to OPro and .... (wait for it!) .... the previously errant pages printed OK on my RPC RO4.39 !Printers 1.62. So perhaps it was something lurking in my (quite old) Impression document format which messed up the conversion subtly. I've offered it to the guy who first alerted me. I'll let you know if he still has problems. I'm not sure what lessons to learn from this lot though. :-) -- Regards from Ray Favre. Email at: Web site at: Tel: (+44) (0)1895 444410 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 17:32:44 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gre5A-2yZVbs-07-E6x.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:32:44 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gre5A-2yZVbs-07-E6x; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:27:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gre5A-2yZVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:27:52 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gre5A-0002sh-7H for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:27:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C1B74549170; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:26:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32334-04; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:26:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 83A425491FC; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:26:58 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:26:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 04F6C549170 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:26:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32186-04 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:26:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 887BA54908B for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 12:26:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from [91.64.216.193] (helo=bach) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1Gre4Q2Zw2-00006l; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:27:06 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.32 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:28:28 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.12 (MsgServe/3.25) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e4772095be5169fd0e120a52273e9d27 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 896 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message David Pilling wrote: >>The documents - both the Impression original and the OPro conversion >>- are the !LaBella Manual which is on my web-site at: >> >>http://rayfavre.me.uk/dwapps.html > > A bit more guidance please. I have these documents, the image appears to > be 100% in both the Ovation Pro and Impression (loaded into Ovation Pro) > versions. The problem pages print OK (to Sprinter). Yes, they do, but only if you use the default settings of 90dpi. If you go to 360dpi you can see the error. It is not surprising that the error only occurs starting from a certain minimum resolution because after all, its wording indicates that it is a coordinate overflow problem. I can confirm that the error IS from GDraw, the Computer Concepts Draw rendering module. Confirming that suspicion is easy: Simply kill GDraw before starting to print and printing succeeds without any error. Then, load GDraw and print again and you see the error message. So, the interesting question is: How is GDraw involved? It is only directly called by ArtWorks and AWRender when rendering ArtWorks files, but it also hooks into the Draw module when printing, so it is possible that something goes wrong with that. I will investigate. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 18:32:38 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Grf22-0W5GPo-06-DA5.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:32:38 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Grf22-0W5GPo-06-DA5; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:28:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Grf22-0W5GPo-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:28:42 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Grf21-0003L0-DP for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:28:42 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 19FCC5494B8; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:27:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17291-06; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:27:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DF96A548D46; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:27:47 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 13:27:07 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EF6055494B8 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17175-09 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C186B5493F2 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:27:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Grf1K-000JOe-IA for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:27:58 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:26:50 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 897 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message , Martin Wuerthner writes >I can confirm that the error IS from GDraw, the Computer Concepts Draw Well done Martin. One way of looking at the problem was to say where does that error come from. There are things, like (heaven help me) SpecialFX that use GDraw to replace the RISC OS Draw module, but if working correctly they don't when printing. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 5 19:42:41 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Grg5Z-4E8000-05-C6Y.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 19:42:41 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Grg5Z-4E8000-05-C6Y; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:36:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Grg5Z-4E8000-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:36:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Grg5J-00042H-Ix for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 19:36:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9EBEF5485A4; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02694-03-7; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 414D5549198; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:32:49 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:32:06 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 619765485A4 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02462-09 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8BC6C547D16 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:31:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from [91.64.216.193] (helo=bach) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1Grg1l0GP6-0004i7; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:32:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.32 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:33:49 +0100 Message-ID: <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.12 (MsgServe/3.25) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e4772095be5169fd0e120a52273e9d27 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 898 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message David Pilling wrote: > In message , Martin Wuerthner > writes >>I can confirm that the error IS from GDraw, the Computer Concepts Draw > > Well done Martin. > > One way of looking at the problem was to say where does that error come > from. > > There are things, like (heaven help me) SpecialFX that use GDraw to > replace RISC OS Draw module, but if working correctly they don't > when printing. True, there have been problems like that with SpecialFX. However, I do not run SpecialFX or FontFix and I am pretty certain that there is no other piece of software running that calls GDraw directly. One thing I could imagine is that OP calls something like Draw_Fill with very large coordinates or a strange matrix. This could happen when drawing the frame background. Yes, the frame background is definitely involved: If you set both frames to Transparent, the file prints without any problems. Set them back to White and the error returns. So, I guess that after the conversion some internal state of the frame is not set correctly that causes a Draw SWI to be called with unusual parameters. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 6 11:45:00 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Grii2-23IGPo-05-9U5.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2006 11:45:00 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Grii2-23IGPo-05-9U5; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:24:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Grii2-23IGPo-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:24:18 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Grii2-0006oR-J1 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:24:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2C432549843; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:23:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13132-04; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:23:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F10955498D7; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:23:24 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:22:43 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 15314549843 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:22:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12918-03 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:22:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D6032549611 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:22:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GrihK-0007b2-9M for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:23:35 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 22:22:18 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 899 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner writes >Yes, the frame background is definitely involved: If you set both >frames to Transparent, the file prints without any problems. Set them >back to White and the error returns. So, I guess that after the >conversion some internal state of the frame is not set correctly that >causes a Draw SWI to be called with unusual parameters. You've made a lot of progress, this explains Ray's observation that recreating the frame solves the problem. But saving the text plus embedded frame as DDL does not reveal anything odd about the parameters of the frame. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Dec 7 13:54:07 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GsIkN-3um000-03-G4K.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:54:07 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GsIkN-3um000-03-G4K; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:53:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GsIkN-3um000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:53:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GsIkK-0003JY-EH for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:53:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 68497550FE8; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12437-03; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0182355107A; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 07 Dec 2006 07:51:24 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0BA70550FE8 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:51:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12217-04-3 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B0B4C55118C for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:51:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [88.134.52.16] (helo=bach) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1GsIjV13DS-0007b1; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:52:13 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.32 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:53:28 +0100 Message-ID: <37307f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.12 (MsgServe/3.25) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e4772095be5169fd0e120a52273e9d27 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 900 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> Martin Wuerthner wrote: > So, I guess that after the > conversion some internal state of the frame is not set correctly that > causes a Draw SWI to be called with unusual parameters. After some further analysis it turned out that this suspicion was correct and I have found out an interesting fact about GDraw that I had not been aware of: When printing from an application that supports ArtWorks files (and hence calls AWRender_ClaimVectors before printing), ALL Draw SWIs are actually handled by GDraw instead (which is quite naughty). I am surprised nobody has noticed so far - this shows how good GDraw's emulation of Draw is. There is one major difference though: GDraw is more sensitive to numeric overflows than Draw and it returns an error if one happens. This has a quite drastic effect during printing. What triggers this particular problem is that OP asks Draw to render a rectangle far off the page - still OK with Draw but too far off for GDraw. I have logged the offending Draw SWI call from OvationPro. While printing page 64, it asks for a rectangle to be rendered about 4 metres(!) below the bottom edge of the page. path 00000002 FFF98EB8 01A18D70 00000008 FFFC63B8 01A18D70 00000008 FFFC63B8 01A4C670 00000008 FFF98EB8 01A4C670 00000008 FFF98EB8 01A18D70 00000005 00000000 matrix 00028F5C 00000000 00000000 FFFD70A4 0017A361 FFEA4938 (the matrix has been modified by the printer driver by the time GDraw sees it so the A and D components were probably only a fourth of that in the original call from OvationPro). This results in an absolute y coord (after transformation) of -71476664, which is outside the range allowed by GDraw. So, the bottom line is: a) GDraw should not really intercept and process Draw SWIs but if it really insists on doing so then it had better get things right - intercepting and messing up a call that Draw could handle definitely counts as a GDraw bug b) OvationPro could help by not asking for such an extremely off-page Draw operation - it has no effect anyway Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Dec 7 14:12:12 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GsJsi-26eVbs-02-Evz.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:12:12 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GsJsi-26eVbs-02-Evz; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:05:48 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GsJsi-26eVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:05:48 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GsJsg-0003hA-8J for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:05:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7C4E35514A6; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:04:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02187-03; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:04:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4E13E551671; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:04:51 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 07 Dec 2006 09:04:10 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 48FB85514A6 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:04:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02029-03 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:04:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 15BEF551446 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:04:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GsJrw-000P5y-HH for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:05:02 +0000 Message-ID: <8hwjO0AE9BeFFwqJ@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:03:48 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <37307f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <37307f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 901 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <37307f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner writes >had not been aware of: When printing from an application that supports >ArtWorks files (and hence calls AWRender_ClaimVectors before >printing), ALL Draw SWIs are actually handled by GDraw instead (which >is quite naughty). I am surprised nobody has noticed so far - this >shows how good GDraw's emulation of Draw is. That is very interesting. I would never have guessed - think about all that stuff with SpecialFX etc. going to great lengths to not use GDraw (I'm sure there are good reasons). >I have logged the offending Draw SWI call from OvationPro. While >printing page 64, it asks for a rectangle to be rendered about 4 >metres(!) below the bottom edge of the page. It would be interesting to find out why. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Dec 7 14:52:15 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GsKb5-1NYGPo-04-EDc.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:52:15 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GsKb5-1NYGPo-04-EDc; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:51:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GsKb5-1NYGPo-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:51:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GsKb2-0007ED-BE for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:51:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CF04055201F; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:50:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16784-03-4; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:50:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8D219552027; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:50:41 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 07 Dec 2006 09:50:00 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 62757551FB3 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16512-07 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 04E57551FCB for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from [88.134.52.16] (helo=bach) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0ML29c-1GsKaK20iv-0008Vr; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:50:52 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.32 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:52:05 +0100 Message-ID: <510c8a914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <37307f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <8hwjO0AE9BeFFwqJ@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <8hwjO0AE9BeFFwqJ@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.12 (MsgServe/3.25) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e4772095be5169fd0e120a52273e9d27 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 902 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <8hwjO0AE9BeFFwqJ@pilling.demon.co.uk> David Pilling wrote: > In message <37307f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner > writes >>had not been aware of: When printing from an application that supports >>ArtWorks files (and hence calls AWRender_ClaimVectors before >>printing), ALL Draw SWIs are actually handled by GDraw instead (which >>is quite naughty). I am surprised nobody has noticed so far - this >>shows how good GDraw's emulation of Draw is. > > That is very interesting. I would never have guessed - think about all > that stuff with SpecialFX etc. going to great lengths to not use GDraw > (I'm sure there are good reasons). Yes. Things would go horribly wrong if SpecialFX redirected Draw calls to GDraw when printing. GDraw can only print correctly if it is hooked into the printing system in precisely the right way - ArtWorks-aware apps ensure that by calling AWRender_ClaimVectors at the right moment. GDraw would not work with any old app that prints. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Dec 7 15:52:20 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GsLQs-4Pm000-02-DNp.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:52:20 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GsLQs-4Pm000-02-DNp; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:45:10 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GsLQs-4Pm000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:45:10 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GsLQo-0000X7-Up for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:45:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9E8D15522E4; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02141-03-3; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DB19A552074; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:44:09 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:43:26 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 672515521EA for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01722-01 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 819315521D4 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:43:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from Iyonix.dsl.pipex.com (85-210-255-19.dsl.pipex.com [85.210.255.19]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D84E0002F2 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:43:50 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Richard Partridge To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:10:22 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Ovation Pro separations Message-ID: <4e918bb90erkp@par.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 903 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: rkp@par.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net I've just been making colour separations from an Ovation Pro file which incorporated an Artworks file which itself incorporated a deep sprite, and found that all the separations came up in colour on that deep sprite, while being otherwise appropriate shades of grey. Experimenting shows that this occurs only when a deep sprite is used in the Artworks file; 8-bit and fewer sprites work correctly. This can be seen via the View menu. If the Artworks file is exported as a Draw file into Ovation, the separations work correctly. I surely can't be the first person to notice this, so my apologies if it's old news, but I haven't yet found anything in writing about it. It looks as if there's something not quite right with either the Artworks renderer or the Ovation Artworks applet. I'm using AWViewer v2.05, Ovation Pro v2.77 and Artworks applet v1.12 on an Iyonix. As Martin reads this list, I've spared his Artworks list a copy. Regards, Richard Partridge. -- Richard Partridge rkp@par.me.uk From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Dec 7 16:02:21 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GsLaL-18m000-06-DEM.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:02:21 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GsLaL-18m000-06-DEM; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:54:57 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GsLaL-18m000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:54:57 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GsLaC-0000jM-W6 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:54:56 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6FB165523A1; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04985-06; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3085C55241F; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:53:07 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C11D5523A1 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:53:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04834-06 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:53:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E7C765523CE for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [88.134.52.16] (helo=bach) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwpI-1GsLZG1xYJ-0000jm; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:53:51 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Ovation Pro separations To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.32 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:55:11 +0100 Message-ID: <1ed38f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4e918bb90erkp@par.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e918bb90erkp@par.me.uk> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.12 (MsgServe/3.25) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e4772095be5169fd0e120a52273e9d27 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 904 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e918bb90erkp@par.me.uk> Richard Partridge wrote: > I've just been making colour separations from an Ovation Pro file > which incorporated an Artworks file which itself incorporated a deep > sprite, and found that all the separations came up in colour on that > deep sprite, while being otherwise appropriate shades of grey. This is an AWRender limitation. From the AWViewer ReadMe: 3.1. Limitations ================ For files *without* transparency, AWRender 2.05 has the following limiations: - [...] - Deep sprites (32k or 16M colours) are not rendered with colour separation - they are always rendered in full colour. This also means that external colour processing options (e.g., Picture => Process in OvationPro or the Colour map feature in Impression) are ignored. - [...] It happens to work for ArtWorks files *with* transparency because everything is flattened to a bitmap, which is rendered with support for colour separation. I hope to remove this limitation eventually, but unfortunately, very few users have ever asked for it - nowadays, people do not use colour separations that much (even for professional printing). Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Dec 7 17:02:21 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GsMXp-2BeVbs-04-CGs.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:02:21 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GsMXp-2BeVbs-04-CGs; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:56:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GsMXp-2BeVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:56:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GsMXo-0003af-Jw for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:56:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5984C552F02; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23689-02; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9AB3F552F6E; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:55:18 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:54:37 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 21D1E552C38 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:54:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23169-05 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:54:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C73D4552A9C for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:54:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from Iyonix.dsl.pipex.com (85-210-255-19.dsl.pipex.com [85.210.255.19]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97100E000739 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:53:26 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Richard Partridge To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 16:52:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Ovation Pro separations Message-ID: <4e91950c8crkp@par.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <1ed38f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4e918bb90erkp@par.me.uk> <1ed38f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 905 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: rkp@par.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <1ed38f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner wrote: > In message <4e918bb90erkp@par.me.uk> > Richard Partridge wrote: > > I've just been making colour separations from an Ovation Pro file > > which incorporated an Artworks file which itself incorporated a > > deep sprite, and found that all the separations came up in colour > > on that deep sprite, while being otherwise appropriate shades of > > grey. > This is an AWRender limitation. From the AWViewer ReadMe: > ....... Many thanks, Martin: I should have found that. Regards, Richard Partidge. -- Richard Partridge rkp@par.me.uk From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Dec 7 17:22:23 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GsMsZ-4JMVbs-04-Bw8.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:22:23 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GsMsZ-4JMVbs-04-Bw8; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:17:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GsMsZ-4JMVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:17:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GsMsY-0006nh-Su for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:17:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 16273553066; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30672-05-2; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:16:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AB09D552D78; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:16:55 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:16:13 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0674B552EFD for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:16:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30448-01 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:16:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C6585552AF3 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:16:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GsMrg-000J2w-Cb for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:16:59 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:15:30 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro 2.76 References: <4e8d7a1c92ray@rayfavre.me.uk> <4e8dd8a0cbray@rayfavre.me.uk> <8f2b9c904e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <37307f914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <8hwjO0AE9BeFFwqJ@pilling.demon.co.uk> <510c8a914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <510c8a914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 906 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <510c8a914e.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner writes >Yes. Things would go horribly wrong if SpecialFX redirected Draw calls >to GDraw when printing. GDraw can only print correctly if it is hooked >into the printing system in precisely the right way - ArtWorks-aware >apps ensure that by calling AWRender_ClaimVectors at the right moment. >GDraw would not work with any old app that prints. Using what you discovered i.e. setting Sprinter to high resolution I have reproduced the problem. It seems the original document is corrupt - that is the document generated by loading the Impression document. It is interesting that corruption occurs at such an early stage. I'm inclined to think fixing what causes the corruption would fix the strange rendering command. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 12 17:23:12 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GuBGh-4boVbs-08-AMi.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:23:12 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GuBGh-4boVbs-08-AMi; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:18:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GuBGh-4boVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:18:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GuBGb-0003fd-6e for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:18:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 762E1567496; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:17:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17794-05; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:17:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B3073567B5A; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:17:04 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:16:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AAEAE567298 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17604-02 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from esparsett.troll.no (esparsett.troll.no [62.70.27.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 602CE5675A3 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from esparsett.troll.no (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 6CF5360062; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:17:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from acidalia.troll.no (acidalia.troll.no [10.3.4.59]) by esparsett.troll.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id D952960055; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:17:12 +0100 (CET) From: David Boddie To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: File problems Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:20:59 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200612121820.59732.david@boddie.org.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 907 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: david@boddie.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net [Dredging up an old post from November to add comments] On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:40:52 +0000, Tony van der Hoff wrote in message > On 19 Nov at 22:17 David Pilling wrote in > message [Tony discusses DTP on Linux] > The only DTP of any significance is Scribus, and whilst free, is highly > ideosyncratic, and offers only a tiny fraction of what OP can do. I belie= ve > there is room for a 'killer' DTP app on Linux, and that OP could well be > that package. But , what do I know? I was hoping to use Scribus as a target for my Impression document conversion efforts but, despite its Free (as in Freedom) nature and XML-based file format, it didn't appear to support the features that were required. Although Scribus is written using Qt, and although I'm fairly familiar with Qt, I didn't really have the time to pitch in to improve the situation. :-( In the end, I used Skencil (http://www.skencil.org) as a rendering engine instead, though I still have the Impression to XML convertor I wrote in the process. :-) > > As to QT... the problem is that DTP depends very intimately on the > > operating system. Although OP was written for RISC OS with no thoughts = of > > portability, moving it to Windows would not have been much work - except > > for how close one has to get to Windows. > >=20 > Now there I have no immediate answer. My feeling is that, given OP renders > quite nicely under wine, a native implementation can only do better. I al= so > rather suspect that the work you've put in to the Windows port (Presumably > Visual Studio) will be very helpful in a Linux port. The commercial version of Qt for Windows (as opposed to the GNU GPL version for Windows) includes support for Visual Studio, so it might even be possible to develop using that, though you would need to think about the licensing situation if you also wanted to deploy closed source applications on multiple platforms. > > For example you can't just paint text on screen, if you do it looks awf= ul, > > you've got to start fiddling with how many pixels appear between > > characters - that is just one example it goes on and on. > >=20 > > So does QT offer the sort of control that is needed? > >=20 > No, QT is just a set of GUI libraries. It's benefit is providing the > necessary infrastructure of windows, system calls, etc for the desktop > system. There are other libraries out there to facilitate graphics > programming, which may help provide the necessary control over screen > rendering. I think you underestimate what Qt provides! Additionally, support for fonts and text handling in Qt is improving all the time. Even if you bypass the higher level rich text handling features and paint everything yourself, there are plenty of low level features available that give you a lot of control over how text is rendered, whether you're displaying it on screen or preparing output for a printer. > You have the advantage of intimate knowledge of the application and its > requirements, and my inclination would be to let you get on with the job = you > have magnificantly performed over the years. However, with all respect, y= ou > appear to have become, I hope only temporarily, stalled for various reaso= ns. > I also believe that having built a machine, and installed Linux, is a far > step from porting a major application to it, even for a man of your > undoubted ability. I believe it would take at least a year of quite inten= se > use of the system to become sufficiently familiar with it to contemplate > such a project.=20 I don't know about that. Qt isn't difficult to learn, and should be simple to get to grips with for an experienced (C++) developer. You (David) should get in touch with Jonathan Marten (of DrawPlus and Vector fame) and ask him about his experiences with writing DrawView: http://www.keelhaul.me.uk/acorn/drawview/ =46rom the perspective of Ovation Pro, you should note that that point in the Compatibility section of that page that talks about non-integer point sizes is slightly misleading - font sizes can be specified with floating point precision: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.2/qfont.html > So, with no knowledge of the internals of OP, but with some years experie= nce > of developing for GNU/Linux, I'm offering you a helping hand. I really do= n't > know how successful it'll be, but I'm prepared to give it a try. I think it would be interesting to see it running on Linux, especially as an open source or Free Software application. > I must own up to not being entirely altruistic. I'm not being entirely altruistic either. I have a professional interest in Qt, and I use the Python bindings (PyQt) in my spare time. > Secondly, I would expect some quid-pro-quo, over which I'll go to > private email. Thirdly, This would be an ideal project for my next step i= nto > the depths of Linux application programming. I'd be interested to hear from either of you if you take this any further. David From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 12 17:43:15 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GuBZW-229Vbs-04-A3t.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:43:15 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GuBZW-229Vbs-04-A3t; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:37:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GuBZW-229Vbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:37:42 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GuBZP-0006Xx-Rf for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:37:42 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 951F1566F77; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23845-03; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6091F567A2F; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:35:22 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:34:40 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1C363566F77 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:34:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23579-05 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:34:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from lon-mail-3.gradwell.net (lon-mail-3.gradwell.net [193.111.201.127]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 162AF5600BB for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:34:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from magpieway.net ([87.127.17.194] helo=tony-lx.magpieway.net country=GB ident=tony&pop3&vanderhoff&org) by lon-mail-3.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.237) id 457ee855.3c00.8d for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:35:17 +0000 (envelope-sender ) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:35:07 +0000 From: Tony van der Hoff To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: File problems Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200612121820.59732.david@boddie.org.uk> References: <200612121820.59732.david@boddie.org.uk> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org User-Agent: Gemini/2.28k (Qt/3.3.4) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 908 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tony@vanderhoff.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net On 12 Dec at 17:20 David Boddie wrote in message <200612121820.59732.david@boddie.org.uk> > [Dredging up an old post from November to add comments] > [snip] > > I'd be interested to hear from either of you if you take this any further. I believe David and I have a basis on which to proceed. I'm a bit tied up with other projects atm, but hope to start something in the spring next year. -- Tony van der Hoff | mailto:tony@vanderhoff.org Buckinghamshire, England From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Dec 12 18:13:09 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GuC64-0JzGPo-03-9XL.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:13:09 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GuC64-0JzGPo-03-9XL; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:11:20 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GuC64-0JzGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:11:20 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GuC64-0003cc-F3 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:11:20 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CFB7956723A; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02754-09; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9C75A5668F2; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:10:24 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:09:43 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 29C6156723A for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02667-02 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4C8B3567227 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GuC5M-0006yK-1V for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:10:36 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:09:00 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: File problems References: <200612121820.59732.david@boddie.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <200612121820.59732.david@boddie.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 909 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <200612121820.59732.david@boddie.org.uk>, David Boddie writes >I'd be interested to hear from either of you if you take this any further. Thanks for the posting. Some interesting comments. For the moment what I am going to do is limited. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 18:14:24 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GvLT0-2SRGPo-05-Et3.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:14:24 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GvLT0-2SRGPo-05-Et3; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:23:46 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GvLT0-2SRGPo-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:23:46 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GvLSz-0006MX-JL for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:23:46 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 288A356EEBB; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:22:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24936-01; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:22:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E666C56EDDE; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:22:48 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:22:06 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 909F256EEC4 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:22:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24611-02 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:22:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 982DA56EAF9 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:22:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 7465 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2006 22:22:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2006 22:22:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dc24PCsVM1netWd.Ynpflyv.4hg4xp0OQtBogQrFCQ5YPCziDCQtXfQThthC9EEZvBnjO.6p60DgpQXIyYetNJ1z16hXbZr4WFC4gXvaMyBZhSf.yRj9lpL3ZvXXMP_ZmRWr2Y4F9bHGs5QNGGDqRMzQL08kvxmBK8HA0JUxgzWbI8I5SVoG3r8QRA-- Message-ID: <4583203A.8010007@ed.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:22:50 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: "Show Spelling Errors" button in OPW 2.92 (20 November 06) References: <8b5c5c7a4e.arnold@ac-zuil.?> <$RDn2CEsxnPFFwAc@pilling.demon.co.uk> <453E9340.6000104@ed.ac.uk> <453FCB31.2060300@ed.ac.uk> <8L8HARHQG9PFFwAn@pilling.demon.co.uk> <453FD4B9.7030702@ed.ac.uk> <45421DB7.6040503@ed.ac.uk> <45425A6C.9060703@ed.ac.uk> <4542861C.1080604@ed.ac.uk> <4e7cdb7c67steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4e7cdb7c67steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 910 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net Yesterday my WinXP PC finally gave up the ghost, and I had to move all my files to a backup machine and reinstall lots of software, including OPW. The last time I had occasion to something like that (not long ago), the "SaveAs" macro button wouldn't work. In that case, the macro definition turned out to be the RiscOS version. This time, it's the "Show Spelling Errors" button that's not working. The macro definition is: {setspellerrors(!getspellerrors())} Is this correct for Windows? If not, what should it be? If it is correct, can anyone suggest why it isn't working? -- C.B. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 18:14:29 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GvMve-4As000-05-DQP.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:14:29 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GvMve-4As000-05-DQP; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:57:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GvMve-4As000-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:57:26 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GvMvb-00051S-0A for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:57:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2EB0F56ED2F; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:56:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19937-01; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:56:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C221156ED30; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:56:24 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:55:42 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 509A156EC61 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:55:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19624-04 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:55:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.142]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id D13B856EB00 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:55:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 22349 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2006 23:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 Dec 2006 23:56:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lwZ3XkUVM1nZ4JU2WtQQSDE_1jnaSjnhV3T5oCJaMku_vwaLsyCejzk3SJuq296SnVQlQyPx1AHw.5OhGcW87kSZ2rpyS2l13C._eh6LSQDZep6_eFT57eMxZCFB689MkC6JjJddwSh0BEi.vjlJ97yPGbpGN8PdLN_Je8KY931XHIc2lvb3pTKa7A-- Message-ID: <4583362C.4010803@ed.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:56:28 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: "Show Spelling Errors" button in OPW 2.92 (20 November 06) References: <8b5c5c7a4e.arnold@ac-zuil.?> <$RDn2CEsxnPFFwAc@pilling.demon.co.uk> <453E9340.6000104@ed.ac.uk> <453FCB31.2060300@ed.ac.uk> <8L8HARHQG9PFFwAn@pilling.demon.co.uk> <453FD4B9.7030702@ed.ac.uk> <45421DB7.6040503@ed.ac.uk> <45425A6C.9060703@ed.ac.uk> <4542861C.1080604@ed.ac.uk> <4e7cdb7c67steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4583203A.8010007@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4583203A.8010007@ed.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 911 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net Clive Bonsall wrote: > Yesterday my WinXP PC finally gave up the ghost, and I had to move all > my files to a backup machine and reinstall lots of software, including > OPW. The last time I had occasion to something like that (not long ago), > the "SaveAs" macro button wouldn't work. In that case, the macro > definition turned out to be the RiscOS version. > > This time, it's the "Show Spelling Errors" button that's not working. Sorry. Forget this ... forgot to install the dictionary :-( -- C.B. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 18:15:37 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GvXiJ-05iVbs-03-BAG.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:15:37 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GvXiJ-05iVbs-03-BAG; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:28:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GvXiJ-05iVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:28:23 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GvXiJ-0003aV-DT for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:28:23 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A82F356E526; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12772-03; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6FE0656E502; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:26:41 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C44B656E526 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12577-01 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.140]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 2568E56E02C for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 06:26:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 94999 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2006 11:27:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp803.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2006 11:27:36 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: lCLiy0gVM1nNjBssdDVWSjqDuyfA4kbsx7B27RV.VQ34orN3Lr0H.cWYBLV8gEJef8D.x3DiPqQhG4Qd2meGAFX9.bBbwvOfXdwAI6rwbygFg2XD8g0.Swk._u8Ge689__3xtSrNuKih Message-ID: <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 11:27:27 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 912 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net Having moved all my OPW files and software to another computer, I have a problem ... so far with one document. This is a 318Mb file created in OPW 2.90 (20 Nov 2006). I can open the file and print it (to PDF), but if I attempt any editing I get "not enough memory". There was no such problem on the old Win XP computer: Athlon 2600+ with 2GB RAM and GeForce4 graphics card with 128Mb RAM. The "new" computer is a Pentium 4 3GHz with 2GB RAM but only onboard graphics (Intel Extreme Graphics 2). I have set virtual memory to the recommended value (3058 MB) and done Misc>clear undo buffer. But to no avail. Any ideas? -- C.B. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 18:39:03 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GveHZ-1Ti000-08-D7W.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:39:03 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GveHZ-1Ti000-08-D7W; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:29:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GveHZ-1Ti000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:29:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GveHZ-0005Iw-Bq for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:29:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7AFB156F064; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26962-08; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C04D56EFA9; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:28:16 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:27:34 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2DA8C56F064 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:27:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26729-08 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:27:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ED58756ED58 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 13:27:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GveGr-0005vq-Ho for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:28:29 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:27:09 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 913 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall writes I was smiling about the thing with the dictionaries, I recently reinstalled XP (on a new hard disc, you'll be relieved to hear) and I forgot to install the dictionary. >Having moved all my OPW files and software to another computer, I have >a problem ... so far with one document. This is a 318Mb file created in >OPW 2.90 (20 Nov 2006). I can open the file and print it (to PDF), but >if I attempt any editing I get "not enough memory". >There was no such problem on the old Win XP computer: Athlon 2600+ with >2GB RAM and GeForce4 graphics card with 128Mb RAM. The "new" computer >is a Pentium 4 3GHz with 2GB RAM but only onboard graphics (Intel >Extreme Graphics 2). I have set virtual memory to the recommended value >(3058 MB) and done Misc>clear undo buffer. But to no avail. No smiles about this though. One idea, Windows can be set up to allocate 3GB or 2GB to user programs. We have talked of this before, it may be a red herring because ISTR that applications have to be built so that Windows knows they are capable of handling addresses over 2GB (negative or high bit addresses, just like mess things up on RISC OS). So I don't know if you configured your old Windows system to use 3GB? I suppose it might be that something is making OPW allocate memory in a different way on the new machine - however things like applets, etc. etc. should only use tiny amounts of memory. Loading/closing documents before you load the problem one might have an effect. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 20:59:11 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GvgWZ-4eS000-04-AsW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:59:11 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GvgWZ-4eS000-04-AsW; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:52:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GvgWZ-4eS000-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:52:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GvgWY-0005HU-Mw for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:52:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C732D56D637; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31910-06; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A2D056E035; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:51:53 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:51:12 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2A0DA56D637 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:51:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31721-07 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:51:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id BA7F656E6A9 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:51:11 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 34957 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2006 20:52:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2006 20:52:07 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: A_t5ND4VM1mCqmqWUWdemXfdWYLcECxAu8cMmtOs7xfdfQZsxGiKfByZ8XvcAUBwgHsId7u02jPP7IL9bZmFETk9GmSesHmISse.HVT5rRzAWOQMibpJj6SRbcD2h7DTrQV0p7RzBDInWYmzR832eiZuKYZKTYbUy5J21hmFS_oED8.uxl4- Message-ID: <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:51:57 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 914 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net David Pilling wrote: > In message <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall > writes > > I was smiling about the thing with the dictionaries, I recently > reinstalled XP (on a new hard disc, you'll be relieved to hear) and I > forgot to install the dictionary. > >> Having moved all my OPW files and software to another computer, I have >> a problem ... so far with one document. This is a 318Mb file created >> in OPW 2.90 (20 Nov 2006). I can open the file and print it (to PDF), >> but if I attempt any editing I get "not enough memory". > > No smiles about this though. One idea, Windows can be set up to allocate > 3GB or 2GB to user programs. No, I didn't do that on the previous system. I've tried setting the /3GB switch in the Boot.ini file in the current system, but it makes no difference ... unless I've made the changes in the wrong place (?): [boot loader] timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin /3GB > I suppose it might be that something is making OPW allocate memory in a > different way on the new machine - however things like applets, etc. > etc. should only use tiny amounts of memory. Loading/closing documents > before you load the problem one might have an effect. Maybe I've just exceeded the capabilities of this particular computer. Clearly, it's the images that make the file so large. Without them, the document is only 236KB. In order to get into the file and delete the images, I temporarily installed OPW on my wife's computer, which is also a Pentium 4 3GHz with 1MB physical RAM but has a good graphics card (better than the one in my old computer). It just about coped with the 318MB file, but editing was extremely slow (long time lag between key press and action). Makes me appreciate the capabilities of the (now defunct) Athlon 2600+ system ... I always had the impression that it was a more capable processor than the 3GHz P4. Next step is to try reducing the size of the images before dropping them back into the file. Perhaps I can get the file down to a size that my current P4 system can handle. Incidentally, why doesn't referencing pictures or using proxies (seem to) have any effect on file size? -- C.B. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 21:29:12 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gvh14-1zRknw-01-AO1.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:29:12 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gvh14-1zRknw-01-AO1; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:24:22 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gvh14-1zRknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:24:22 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gvh0z-0002Jp-1f for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:24:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8F9FA56F2B1; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:23:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08241-06-2; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:23:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C519056F273; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:23:10 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:22:29 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 87D1156F020 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:22:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07993-02 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:22:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3CC8C56F2DA for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Gvh02-000JWY-M3 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:23:19 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:21:48 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 915 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall writes >No, I didn't do that on the previous system. I've tried setting the >/3GB switch in the Boot.ini file in the current system, but it makes no >difference ... unless I've made the changes in the wrong place (?): Looks OK If anyone else is interested, see: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.mspx for an explanation. I think I should do a build of OPW that supports 3GB, it should be simple for me. >Maybe I've just exceeded the capabilities of this particular computer. Yes, but what capabilities? >Next step is to try reducing the size of the images before dropping >them back into the file. Perhaps I can get the file down to a size that >my current P4 system can handle. Presumably. I suppose you need a workaround. Something like deleting a picture, flush the undo buffer (Misc->Clear undo buffer) then continue. Or set the size of the undo buffer to zero. >Incidentally, why doesn't referencing pictures or using proxies (seem >to) have any effect on file size? I can only think that the undo buffer is not flushed. In other words you reference the image, but immediately after that step the image is still in memory in case you undo the step. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 21:59:13 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GvhWE-3R3knw-07-9sr.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:59:13 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GvhWE-3R3knw-07-9sr; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:56:34 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GvhWE-3R3knw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:56:34 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GvhWA-0002XN-Jv for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:56:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 85E3F56ED22; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:55:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16307-01; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:55:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DBFF056EE9F; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:55:32 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:54:51 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4AFCF56ECE8 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:54:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16145-07-4 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:54:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.199]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 8814856ED0F for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 75085 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2006 21:55:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp809.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Dec 2006 21:55:45 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: XRqJe9cVM1l06B2xuU2HCUgjh6RUfr43L8KoKNwTeC1EO143qHIQmtwrqcxmNgHzjBpHfikqWx4fGGHFIdiLtMQuuxmPsqQyUQOMBMGYK9._1KqeS4Q- Message-ID: <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 21:55:36 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 916 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net David Pilling wrote: > In message <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall > writes >> No, I didn't do that on the previous system. I've tried setting the >> /3GB switch in the Boot.ini file in the current system, but it makes >> no difference ... unless I've made the changes in the wrong place (?): > > Looks OK > > I think I should do a build of OPW that supports 3GB, it should be > simple for me. > > >> Maybe I've just exceeded the capabilities of this particular computer. > > Yes, but what capabilities? Quite! Difficult to say ... In terms of hardware, the same memory modules were used for both machines, altho' the P4 has 2MB whereas the Athlon had only 1MB; the motherboards are different, in fact the Athlon m/b was several years older; the main difference is the lack of a separate graphics card in the P4. In terms of software/settings, they're pretty much the same. > >> Next step is to try reducing the size of the images before dropping >> them back into the file. Perhaps I can get the file down to a size >> that my current P4 system can handle. > > Presumably. That has sorted the problem. When I put the originals into Photoshop, I discovered that altho' they were intended to be B&W images (by the author), several of them had been created/saved in 8-bit color. Reducing them to simple bitmaps has substantially reduced the file size ... down to 6MB! Still, had they really been color images, I suppose I would have come up against the "not enough memory" problem anyway. >> Incidentally, why doesn't referencing pictures or using proxies (seem >> to) have any effect on file size? > > I can only think that the undo buffer is not flushed. In other words you > reference the image, but immediately after that step the image is still > in memory in case you undo the step. But I did flush the undo buffer ... and isn't the undo buffer automatically flushed when a document is saved? -- CB From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 16 22:09:13 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gvhdz-034Vbs-02-9l6.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:09:13 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gvhdz-034Vbs-02-9l6; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:04:35 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gvhdz-034Vbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:04:35 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gvhdy-0004Lj-Fk for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:04:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 786E856D4EF; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18425-06; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 424A456D77A; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:02:53 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7FD9056D4EF for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:02:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18112-09 for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:02:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4BCD356D4DD for ; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:02:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GvhdE-000Bjw-2o for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:03:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:02:35 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 917 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall writes >Still, had they really been color images, I suppose I would have come >up against the "not enough memory" problem anyway. Yes it is interesting why, with say 2GB the max size of documents is around 500MB. Obviously assuming virtual memory etc. allow more than 500MB to be available to OPW. >But I did flush the undo buffer ... and isn't the undo buffer >automatically flushed when a document is saved? Possibly, the user of OPW can choose if the undo buffer is flushed before saving documents. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Mon Dec 18 17:27:10 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GwMA1-2mg000-07-Bre.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:27:10 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GwMA1-2mg000-07-Bre; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:20:21 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GwMA1-2mg000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:20:21 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GwM9x-0005ba-UT for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:20:21 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 46D10570506; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:19:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20056-03; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:19:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E4A32570566; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:19:16 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:18:35 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B9528570506 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19525-01 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9FCEE570527 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:18:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from Ionyx. (dsl213-218-238-102.as15444.net [213.218.238.102]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kBIHJH68020167 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:19:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Harrison To: Ovation Pro Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:21:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Frame overlap type 5 crashes Message-ID: <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 918 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@jaharrison.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net I thought I had got the hang of avoiding this problem, by ensuring that when two frames with non zero corner radius overlap, one has radius 5mm and the other 5.01mm. I have suddenly started getting lots more crashes, including some when frames with 0mm radius corners overlap those with 5mm radius corners, which never caused a problem before. I haven't used O-Pro for about 4 weeks, but I can't think of any significant upgrades to my system in that period. I am still on RO5.11. Does anyone recognise the symptoms? John -- John Harrison - http://www.jaharrison.me.uk Message sent from a British built Iyonix PC running RISC-OS 5 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Mon Dec 18 18:07:12 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GwMri-21sknw-03-B9x.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:07:12 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GwMri-21sknw-03-B9x; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:05:30 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GwMri-21sknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:05:30 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GwMre-0001W0-Bj for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:05:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3CDBC570148; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01256-02; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:04:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F40B4570566; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:04:02 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:03:20 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E95A4570148 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01020-06 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0C0F957012F for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GwMqT-000ISY-0U for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:04:13 +0000 Message-ID: <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:02:50 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 919 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net Hi, After talking about it for a long time, I have linked Ovation Pro for Windows so that it can use more than 2GB of address space. The new installer is at: www.davidpilling.info/ovnproi.exe (2.92 - 18th December 2006) Use at your own risk. As I said a day or two back in this thread you will have to have configured Windows XP so that it is possible for applications to get more than 2GB of address space. Many interesting questions, for example what happens on Windows XP 64 - where presumably there is a lot more address space. (32 bits give you 4GB of address space, which can be divvied up as 2+2 or 3+1 for apps+operating system) Also has any one any experience of other DTP/wp apps with big documents? The problem is that although you have 2GB of address space, you're unlikely to get 2GB of stuff in memory because some fragmentation of the address space will take place. However there are ways around this, like not holding all the document in memory at the same time. I reflect that when I set off writing Ovation Pro (in 1992) the concern was if it would run on computers with 1MB of memory and how to handle large graphics files - i.e. files of a few 100K size. When you start talking about Gigabyte files the game becomes different. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Mon Dec 18 21:27:57 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GwNzJ-04yGPo-08-A2M.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:27:57 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GwNzJ-04yGPo-08-A2M; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:17:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GwNzJ-04yGPo-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:17:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GwNzI-00042j-Tr for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:17:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D35D1570867; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:16:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23150-02; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:16:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A3774570875; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:16:25 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:15:44 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3D2C6570867 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:15:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22905-02 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:15:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id C075F5707EB for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:15:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 40404 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2006 19:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Dec 2006 19:16:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 8MpjRaMVM1lxfJtovJfscmFX3S8qa76ZecSqHFa7KNMCUiRKOgDvXfsD9C1yz5saRnL6aVyOAg4VhTP6ln9HC0fvUhPzckQ8MvCzqU0K09vqhLoSQ5B9jy7pVxFTHjfQz9WejAIrpls- Message-ID: <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:16:29 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPW -- "not enough memory" References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 920 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net David Pilling wrote: > After talking about it for a long time, I have linked Ovation Pro for > Windows so that it can use more than 2GB of address space. First impressions (literally, 5 seconds) ... the 318MB file is now editable. Wonderful, thanks. I'll give it a longer work-out after dinner. -- CB From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Dec 22 12:14:02 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GxjEb-1IOknw-03-C2E.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:14:02 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GxjEb-1IOknw-03-C2E; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:10:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GxjEb-1IOknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:10:45 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GxjEa-0000RB-Op for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:10:45 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 10E795793F4; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:09:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10406-01; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:09:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BC001579167; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:09:45 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:09:04 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9773E578745 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:09:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10226-02 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:09:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail-ps.sunrise.ch (mta-ps-be-08.sunrise.ch [194.158.229.43]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4E62F577E5E for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:09:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.com.smile.ch (194.230.224.213) by mail-ps.sunrise.ch (7.2.073) id 458247CF0013E1D7 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:10:01 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Frame overlap type 5 crashes To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: JMAH van Vredenburch X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.36 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:04:03 +0100 Message-ID: <2e3434994e.janvred@smile.ch> References: <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> X-Organization: Secr. St. Van Vredenburch; CIC-member User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.24 (MsgServe/3.27) (RISC-OS/5.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 921 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: janvredenburch@smile.ch Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> John Harrison wrote: > I thought I had got the hang of avoiding this problem, by ensuring that > when two frames with non zero corner radius overlap, one has radius 5mm and > the other 5.01mm. > > I have suddenly started getting lots more crashes, including some when > frames with 0mm radius corners overlap those with 5mm radius corners, which > never caused a problem before. I can in no way reproduce your problem. Some ideas: You do have OvPro version 2.77 (2-June-2006)? Do you have the latest versions of the applets installed? One option. Download all applets and install them anew. Another (drastic) option: Place/Keep a copy of your !Macros in a safe place (as you are going to overwrite this file). Now open the Macros window (Menu>Misc) and deselect all macros (with the possible exception of the macros button - an capital M with a blue pencil). Click the Save button, close down and rerun OvPro. Try making the frames you believe lead to a crash. If the problem has vanished some or other applet, activated by the original macros file, is possibly corrupt, or a macro. Re-install the macro's from your copy (say 5 lines at a time) and test again. Etc. On the other hand if the problem remains I suggest you re-install OvPro from scratch (keep a copy of your !Macros file and User dictionaries!!) and install the applets fresh from the website. It is a bit far fetched to believe a dictionary might be the cause. But I have known problems in the *early* days of OvPro resulting in corrupted dictionaries and thus causing problems with OvPro. One way to check if your (user) dictionary (started a long time ago) is in order is to take a text copy (file it in a safe place), load this in OvPro (4 or 5 columns) and then do a wordcheck. If faults come up you have a faulty dictionary. Delete it. The manual explains how to create new dictionaries (and this is where you use the filed text copy of your dictionary to re-install the dictionary you just deleted). Sorry, no more ideas now... Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year, -- Greetings, JohnvV From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Dec 22 13:44:07 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gxkd4-0eEGPo-02-Adl.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:44:07 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gxkd4-0eEGPo-02-Adl; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:40:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gxkd4-0eEGPo-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:40:06 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gxkd3-0001FP-ST for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:40:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6F2135792A4; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:39:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02842-03; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:39:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AD8425791F8; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:39:03 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:38:22 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C6BC35794D7 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02619-01-3 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 65F585793BB for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:38:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GxkcJ-000C7h-C0 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:39:19 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:38:19 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Frame overlap type 5 crashes References: <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 922 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk>, John Harrison writes >I thought I had got the hang of avoiding this problem, by ensuring that >when two frames with non zero corner radius overlap, one has radius 5mm and >the other 5.01mm. >Does anyone recognise the symptoms? Sounds like the well known bug in Ovation Pro which after 15 years I have (scandalously) failed to fix. I don't think you need to look any further. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Dec 22 21:54:38 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GxsIg-1pbGPo-05-BUf.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:54:38 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GxsIg-1pbGPo-05-BUf; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:51:34 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GxsIg-1pbGPo-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:51:34 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GxsIa-000089-6O for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:51:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CE94E57B220; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09106-06; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E7A9057ACF8; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:50:23 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:49:43 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DF06A57AF45 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08773-08 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:49:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3DE1357B113 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:49:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from Ionyx. (dsl82-163-34-216.as15444.net [82.163.34.216]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.13.7/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kBMLoHon011137 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:50:18 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Harrison To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:41:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Frame overlap type 5 crashes Message-ID: <4e99690dd7john@jaharrison.me.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 923 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@jaharrison.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article , David Pilling wrote: > >I thought I had got the hang of avoiding this problem, by ensuring that > >when two frames with non zero corner radius overlap, one has radius 5mm > >and the other 5.01mm. Does anyone recognise the symptoms? > Sounds like the well known bug in Ovation Pro which after 15 years I > have (scandalously) failed to fix. > I don't think you need to look any further. But you snipped the key bit of my message: " ... including some when frames with 0mm radius corners overlap those with 5mm radius corners, which never caused a problem before." I understood the long standing bug only related to overlap of frames with the same, non-zero radius. That's all I experienced before. I have used lots of frames with zero radius over the top of frames with 5mm radius before, and never had a problem until now. John -- John Harrison - http://www.jaharrison.me.uk Message sent from a British built Iyonix PC running RISC-OS 5 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Dec 23 11:57:43 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gxt0I-1tq000-05-An3.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:57:43 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gxt0I-1tq000-05-An3; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:36:38 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gxt0I-1tq000-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:36:38 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gxt0H-00067d-1X for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:36:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B860A579FF8; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21985-01; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9BB36579150; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:35:30 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:34:47 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A236E577047 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:34:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21693-01 for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:34:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D74A578F6B for ; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:34:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GxszQ-000KvD-G0 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:35:45 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:35:32 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Frame overlap type 5 crashes References: <4e9741f0a2john@jaharrison.me.uk> <4e99690dd7john@jaharrison.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4e99690dd7john@jaharrison.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 924 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e99690dd7john@jaharrison.me.uk>, John Harrison writes >But you snipped the key bit of my message: >" ... including some when frames with 0mm radius corners overlap those >with 5mm radius corners, which never caused a problem before." Well of course without seeing the actual document I am guessing. But there is a general problem with overlapping frames. Usually a minute change will stop things going wrong. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 11:52:55 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyH57-4IYknw-06-CHm.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:52:55 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyH57-4IYknw-06-CHm; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:19:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyH57-4IYknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:19:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyH57-0002GE-7w for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:19:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 21E2257B63B; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:18:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26614-04; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:18:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DCF5457B751; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:18:13 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:17:31 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7ECE557B63B for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26448-01-4 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.195]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 1C15D57B890 for ; Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:17:31 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 9527 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2006 00:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp805.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2006 00:18:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: sRvGwK0VM1kg.BzG1E_tt7hPcRnmSa5SieiVWQuKxXgF_kdBwIBbc30Be0iKiReGg7L40LAz_7jeM52Ejn56D8SSroJCvRtuYmJi7Gm5Q3hMD62maNZZYXfCd977CZKMB8hofusMx.B7 Message-ID: <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 00:18:26 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Strange behaviour of SRWE applet with OPW References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 925 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recently, I've been using SRWE for find/replace operations in OPW, in=20 preference to the standard FIND. Subsequently, on copying a large black=20 of text from an OPW document to the Windows clipboard then pasting it=20 into a WORD document, I noticed frequent occurrences of a specific=20 (unwanted) character throughout the document. The character is a white ?=20 inside a black diamond --- in Unicode(hex) this has character code FFFD.=20 The character is not visible in the original OPW document nor in a PDF=20 file generated from the OPW document, but it is visible in the DDL file=20 when opened in Notepad --- the character appears as a narrow rectangle. This is easily repeatable. For example, type ... "The quick brown fox" Then, using SRWE, replace "quick" with "QUICK", thus ... "The QUICK brown fox" Then copy the above line to the Windows clipboard, and paste it into a=20 MSWORD document. You should see ... "The ?QUICK brown fox" (i.e. the same line, but with the unwanted FFFD=20 character before the "Q" of QUICK. If the unwanted characters are not visible in OPW or PDF documents, why=20 is this a problem? Well, it can be a problem in subsequent find/replace=20 operations in OPW where the (invisible) FFFD character occurs in the=20 middle of the string that you want to find. Is this a bug in SRWE and is there a simple solution, other than saving=20 an OPW document as a DDL file, then opening it in Notepad, and doing a=20 find/replace for all the unwanted characters? --=20 C.B. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 12:22:37 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GySK0-0vdknw-02-9ZP.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:22:37 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GySK0-0vdknw-02-9ZP; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:19:20 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GySK0-0vdknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:19:20 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GySJu-0003Rv-DZ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:19:20 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 74DD557C086; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03208-04; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4578057C0D4; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:16:58 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BB91D57C086 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:16:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02816-04 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:16:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B8BFB57C055 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 07:16:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GySII-000FY6-Kq for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:17:34 +0000 Message-ID: <4W7SzqAd+mjFFwR$@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 12:16:29 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Strange behaviour of SRWE applet with OPW References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 926 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall writes >operations in OPW where the (invisible) FFFD character occurs in the >middle of the string that you want to find. FFFD is the Unicode which OPW uses to represent blank characters. In the standard RISC OS character set there are codes with no characters. When writing OPW it was interesting to see that many documents originating on RISC OS have invisible characters in, presumably the result of miskeying - anyway blank codes have to appear as blank, or else such documents will change appearance. So first guess is that odd codes are being replaced in the document. I expect that you can get rid of them by doing a global search/replace - if you can work out what the code value to search for is. More later... -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 13:43:46 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyTPf-4gG000-06-H0G.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:43:46 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyTPf-4gG000-06-H0G; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:29:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyTPf-4gG000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:29:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyTPd-0006kl-7E for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:29:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5109957C21E; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:28:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20859-08; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:28:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E6A2357C22E; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:28:11 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:27:29 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 99F8957C21E for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20561-04 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.201]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id D8B7357C21B for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:27:28 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 95776 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2006 13:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp811.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2006 13:28:26 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: wESEzhgVM1mUUuqkRlbdgEEsVrDXTaq2tVBlflLAhjHKtOfrvKOM8M7VM5LjrdtYYbdU6omQE2Xyp3EmYAlcHXAC.IHSYMrihg79gecMoXES6NNbf_2aXAXWArC089W1BZoYC1AHgUO9 Message-ID: <458E8078.3080401@ed.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:28:24 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Strange behaviour of SRWE applet with OPW References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk> <4W7SzqAd+mjFFwR$@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4W7SzqAd+mjFFwR$@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 927 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net David Pilling wrote: > In message <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall > writes >> operations in OPW where the (invisible) FFFD character occurs in the >> middle of the string that you want to find. > > FFFD is the Unicode which OPW uses to represent blank characters. In the > standard RISC OS character set there are codes with no characters. Hmmm? So, is this different from the blank character Unicode used by MSWORD? If you open up the Symbol dialogue in WORD, so that you can view the full Unicode character set, the blank character used by WORD seems to be the first character in the table (0020), whereas FFFD is the last character in the table. > When writing OPW it was interesting to see that many documents > originating on RISC OS have invisible characters in, presumably the > result of miskeying - anyway blank codes have to appear as blank, or > else such documents will change appearance. > > So first guess is that odd codes are being replaced in the document. This may be the source of SOME invisible characters in SOME of my documents. But I don't think there is any question that SRWE is inserting blank characters (FFFD) immediately before the string that is replaced --- they haven't come from RISCOS. > I expect that you can get rid of them by doing a global search/replace - > if you can work out what the code value to search for is. I have failed to find a way of doing this in OPW or MSWORD. Selecting the blank character (FFFD) in WORD and pasting it into the FIND box doesn't work ... it will actually find "ordinary" blank spaces (0020), but not the black diamond-with-white questionmark. However, global search/replace can be done if the DDL file is opened in Windows Notepad. The other thing I notice is that when an FFFD blank character is present in a WORD document, it has an effect on line spacing --- extra space is present above the line with the FFFD character (equivalent to 6pt spacing). But there is no equivalent effect on line spacing in OPW. > More later... I'm intrigued. -- C.B. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 14:37:15 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyTkx-4W3knw-07-Gey.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:37:15 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyTkx-4W3knw-07-Gey; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:51:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyTkx-4W3knw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:51:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyTkv-0005jH-V8 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:51:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7D72257C21B; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:50:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26694-08; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:50:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 655E157C1E4; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:50:12 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:49:30 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9839757C21E for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:49:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26294-03-9 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:49:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6BC8657C26B for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:49:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GyTkA-000Bgt-HY for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:50:26 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:48:51 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Strange behaviour of SRWE applet with OPW References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk> <4W7SzqAd+mjFFwR$@pilling.demon.co.uk> <458E8078.3080401@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <458E8078.3080401@ed.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 928 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <458E8078.3080401@ed.ac.uk>, Clive Bonsall writes >view the full Unicode character set, the blank character used by WORD >seems to be the first character in the table (0020), whereas FFFD is >the last character in the table. Code hex 20 (decimal 32) is a space character. That is not a blank. A space will advance the position in the text horizontally, so a space is something rather than nothing. >>of miskeying - anyway blank codes have to appear as blank, or else >>such >This may be the source of SOME invisible characters in SOME of my I'm not saying it is the source of any of your problem characters. I was just pointing out that there are empty code positions in RISC OS and they have to be mapped to something which does not print. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 15:07:15 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyUqW-2xwVbs-04-FZP.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 15:07:15 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyUqW-2xwVbs-04-FZP; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 15:01:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyUqW-2xwVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 15:01:04 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyUqS-0000Ls-SR for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 15:01:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BA9DB579E3D; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11475-05; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 81838579DB9; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:59:16 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6186057C343 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11064-03 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:59:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6359D57C32B for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:59:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GyUpg-000Omb-HX for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 15:00:12 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:59:09 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Strange behaviour of SRWE applet with OPW References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk> <4W7SzqAd+mjFFwR$@pilling.demon.co.uk> <458E8078.3080401@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 929 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message , David Pilling writes OK, mystery resolved. If anything the problem is a bug in Ovation Pro. What is going on is that SRWE uses the line type("{'DELETE}"); to simulate the user pressing the delete key to get rid of a piece of selected text. There should be nothing wrong with that, but what happens is that the text is deleted, and then code 127 (0x7F) (delete) is inserted in the text. These 127s are what you're seeing. You can fix things by using normal OP search and replace, for the search string use: <0x7F> leave the replace string blank and do a replace all. The background to this is that if you select a piece of text and then press another key, the text is deleted and the keystroke is inserted. This is the 'overtype' setting in text choices. This is what is going on above with DELETE. At the moment I am inclined to think that this should not happen. I will investigate and fix the problem. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 19:07:27 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyYak-2aB000-05-BpB.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 19:07:27 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyYak-2aB000-05-BpB; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 19:01:02 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyYak-2aB000-05 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 19:01:02 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyYaj-00000W-Q9 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 19:01:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0432457B62D; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:00:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08051-01-3; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:00:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 459F357B738; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:00:01 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:59:19 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A7E6E57C013 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07771-01 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 00FDF57C044 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 13:59:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 24 Dec 2006 19:00:16 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAEpcjkXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACOBwEBCQ4q Received: from 88-105-231-32.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.231.32]:10360 helo=dave.nom) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GyYa0-000HFt-81 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 19:00:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 19:00:56 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 930 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dfs@ukgateway.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net Simple question on behalf of my dear Fay... Is there a simple way to turn off the exceedingly annoying beeping that CS does. By simple I mean within the app itself, rather than as I have done for her, turned off all the sound from !Boot Configuration Sound. I guess if I knew the appropriate commands, I could make a couple of obey files, one to turn the sound off, and one to turn it back on... Unfortunately ATM my RO manual is somewhere in the loft in storage. Thanks Dave S -- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 21:17:34 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyacO-2vsVbs-04-9nX.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:17:34 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyacO-2vsVbs-04-9nX; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:10:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyacO-2vsVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:10:52 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyacO-0000yy-8g for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:10:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7828957BC8F; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09411-08; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4461957A9F0; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:09:52 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:09:11 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4BF4D57BC8F for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:09:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09285-01 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:09:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com (smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com [217.12.12.196]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id E997057BC8A for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:09:09 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 10249 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2006 21:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.3?) (cbonsall@btinternet.com@81.156.39.85 with plain) by smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2006 21:10:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BLa3__wVM1n6CrnIohpd3A0Vrz60e.38WgYS4xf16JFbrWrOOOjKUl_vaKvCzZspRyJeWdAxeyLFfPnG7N7VQK9dZh4nCg2PHEejP7nl3EhCPcRLug7_OuYU8l3c7Luj.ltvI8VYw2s- Message-ID: <458EECAD.2060402@ed.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:10:05 +0000 From: Clive Bonsall User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Windows/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Strange behaviour of SRWE applet with OPW References: <0f21a3854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <1d46a8854e.jaycee@jaygcee.ntlworld.com> <4583D81F.3050304@ed.ac.uk> <45845C6D.3080200@ed.ac.uk> <45846B58.2040202@ed.ac.uk> <9tsjN7CKfthFFwS6@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4586E90D.6040201@ed.ac.uk> <458DC752.1080402@ed.ac.uk> <4W7SzqAd+mjFFwR$@pilling.demon.co.uk> <458E8078.3080401@ed.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 931 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: C.Bonsall@ed.ac.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net David Pilling wrote: > In message , David Pilling > writes > > OK, mystery resolved. If anything the problem is a bug in Ovation Pro. > You can fix things by using normal OP search and replace, for the search > string use: > > <0x7F> Thanks ... very helpful. Merry Xmas. -- C.B. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 21:37:34 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gyasf-4KkVbs-03-9XG.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:37:34 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gyasf-4KkVbs-03-9XG; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:27:41 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gyasf-4KkVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:27:41 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gyase-0003La-Nx for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:27:41 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B4F8F57C224; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13383-02; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:26:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EEF3357C1C5; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:26:39 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:25:58 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7916B57C224 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12959-03 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp103.plus.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp103.plus.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.53.28]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 16F1957C1C9 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:25:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 65208 invoked from network); 24 Dec 2006 21:26:56 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:MIME-Version:From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:User-Agent:Content-Type; b=TNdw3oxz+oOqx5OV2Y/J8NMa09Fvo5ucbiLhYoOhcEcvBow/o8DVjSivLSjqYp/TZ3B2Xk+Y1kTE2CeQ8d6nnm6wU7jb8ezFjSwxUYEHavMXAeMA2ofwOTEMI6nBQfYbqgZ0LoT4PjxA1yBBzLqAaHXxn01hQXEqkQp+Y6EvSXk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO Iyonix.nom) (ian.hartley12@btinternet.com@86.139.65.86 with login) by smtp103.plus.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Dec 2006 21:26:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BCardfQVM1lfJrUF7FLsCdPbXL.7dMZ704UN8ifZ2kR97vVOrZdX67QVzaR8k_WpQfaVJEcMyVfZZUzB_xW41Sanb9MXF7j51FCjat6AVtJq1DS9O6I4c7i9sKB8n0aX8IvezCYiWfG5yQD3D4LW8cU7l0LBYywl9zxVI_cEqketYPhYxY0W6j2Jii0- MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian J Hartley To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 21:26:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.12) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 932 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Ian.Hartley12@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net>, Dave Symes wrote: > I guess if I knew the appropriate commands, I could make a couple of > obey files, one to turn the sound off, and one to turn it back on... *Speaker ON/OFF Ian From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Dec 24 22:07:37 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GybS4-0jPGPo-01-8xr.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:07:37 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GybS4-0jPGPo-01-8xr; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:04:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GybS4-0jPGPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:04:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GybRy-0005jI-Fr for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:04:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A407D57BECB; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22317-04-2; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2AD8A57BE9A; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:02:27 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0D0FC57BECF for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22019-02 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:02:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DDCD057BA10 for ; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:02:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GybRC-0002Xb-CJ for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:03:23 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 22:01:49 +0000 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 933 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net>, Dave Symes writes >By simple I mean within the app itself, rather than as I have done for >her, turned off all the sound from !Boot Configuration Sound. I'd think you're into hacking the !RunImage territory. It does a bbc_vdu(7) for the beep. Presumably one could find that bit of code and change it. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:22:50 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gyidv-4UbVbs-01-AIW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:22:50 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gyidv-4UbVbs-01-AIW; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:44:59 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gyidv-4UbVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:44:59 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gyidv-0003Td-7r for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:44:59 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 97FCF57BBD3; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 00:43:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03573-02-8; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 00:43:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DDBCE57B63B; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 00:43:58 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 00:43:17 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 258EA57B6EB for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 00:43:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03346-03 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 00:43:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7D75C57B514 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 00:43:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 25 Dec 2006 05:44:13 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPrzjkXUSnInh2dsb2JhbACOBgEBCQ4q Received: from 88-105-227-175.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.227.175]:10019 helo=dave.nom) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GyidB-000E9y-9k for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:44:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:35:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 934 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dfs@ukgateway.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com>, Ian J Hartley wrote: > In article <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net>, > Dave Symes wrote: > > I guess if I knew the appropriate commands, I could make a couple of > > obey files, one to turn the sound off, and one to turn it back on... > *Speaker ON/OFF > Ian Thank you for that thought Ian, unfortunately it doesn't actually work either from the CLI, or Desktop as an Obey file. (Dunno why). However, prompted by your posting, I went into the loft and found my old RO 3 User guide, and I've given her two Obey files with Audio ON and Audio Off. That does work. Seasons greetings and thanks for the prompt. Dave S -- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:22:59 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GylYK-4J5000-01-Fud.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:22:59 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GylYK-4J5000-01-Fud; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 08:51:24 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GylYK-4J5000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 08:51:24 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GylYK-0001Bj-Hv for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 08:51:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DB93057BDB7; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 03:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11442-01-7; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 03:50:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BCB6B57BDDE; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 03:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 03:49:41 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6309E57BD32 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 03:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11205-04 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 03:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ranger.systems.pipex.net (ranger.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.32]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 296EC57BD15 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 03:49:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from RiscPC (85-210-62-6.dsl.pipex.com [85.210.62.6]) by ranger.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF18E00045B for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 08:50:38 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 08:39:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 935 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net On 25 Dec, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com>, Ian J Hartley > wrote: > > In article <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net>, Dave Symes > > wrote: > > > I guess if I knew the appropriate commands, I could make a couple of > > > obey files, one to turn the sound off, and one to turn it back on... > > *Speaker ON/OFF > > Ian > Thank you for that thought Ian, unfortunately it doesn't actually work > either from the CLI, or Desktop as an Obey file. (Dunno why). Possibly because you aren't using the command on RISC OS 5 on an Iyonix? > However, prompted by your posting, I went into the loft and found my old > RO 3 User guide, and I've given her two Obey files with Audio ON and > Audio Off. That does work. Consistency - lovely innit? > Seasons greetings and thanks for the prompt. Merry Skipmas. (That does mean something...) -- Steve Pampling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:23:07 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GynKp-19Kknw-06-E88.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:23:07 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GynKp-19Kknw-06-E88; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 10:45:35 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GynKp-19Kknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 10:45:35 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GynKo-0003oE-Qn for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 10:45:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 389EE57B82C; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04379-10; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0835057B7B8; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:44:34 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:43:52 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D16B657B82C for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04261-01 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B6C8057B8F1 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 05:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from lowrys.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.208] helo=a9.lowrys.demon.co.uk) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1GynK5-0009Xn-3F for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 10:44:49 +0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Ian Lowry X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.36 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 10:43:19 GMT Message-ID: References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> X-Organization: Matchstick User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.24 (MsgServe/3.27S) (RISC-OS/4.42) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 936 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> Dave Symes wrote: > >> *Speaker ON/OFF > >> Ian > > Thank you for that thought Ian, unfortunately it doesn't actually work > either from the CLI, or Desktop as an Obey file. (Dunno why). > > However, prompted by your posting, I went into the loft and found my old > RO 3 User guide, and I've given her two Obey files with Audio ON and Audio > Off. That does work. > > Seasons greetings and thanks for the prompt. > Try *Audio ON/OFF Nadolig llawen, Ian -- All true wisdom can be found on T-shirts From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:23:29 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyonR-0TPGPo-03-CfW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:23:29 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyonR-0TPGPo-03-CfW; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:19:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyonR-0TPGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:19:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyonQ-0004eH-J5 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:19:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6B95657B91E; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24604-03; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3536757BEA2; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:18:11 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:28 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6F01557B91E for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24298-01 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 135EF57AC0B for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 25 Dec 2006 12:18:26 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAL5Qj0XUSnIwh2dsb2JhbACOBwEBCQ4q Received: from 88-105-219-207.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.219.207]:10044 helo=dave.nom) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Gyokb-000I0C-Oe for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:16:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:06:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9abfe3b5dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 937 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dfs@ukgateway.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article , Ian Lowry wrote: > In message <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> > Dave Symes wrote: > > > >> *Speaker ON/OFF > > > >> Ian > > > > Thank you for that thought Ian, unfortunately it doesn't actually work > > either from the CLI, or Desktop as an Obey file. (Dunno why). > > > > ****However, prompted by your posting, I went into the loft and found > > my old RO 3 User guide, and I've given her two Obey files with Audio > > ON and Audio Off. That does work.**** > > > > Seasons greetings and thanks for the prompt. > > > Try *Audio ON/OFF > Nadolig llawen, > Ian Sorry Ian, I am now confused. In my previous posting which you quote, I say (See above within ****) You are saying? Dave S -- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:23:29 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GyonS-4PpVbs-07-CfV.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:23:29 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GyonS-4PpVbs-07-CfV; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:19:14 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GyonS-4PpVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:19:14 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GyonR-0000hM-FW for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:19:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A6D8057BEC5; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:18:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24604-05; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:18:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 682B457BCFF; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:18:12 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:29 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CE23557BCB3 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24298-02 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7F2B857AC0B for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:17:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 25 Dec 2006 12:18:27 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAApQj0XUSnIwh2dsb2JhbACOBwEBCQ4q Received: from 88-105-219-207.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.219.207]:10044 helo=dave.nom) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Gyokc-000I0C-KM for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:16:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:18:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9ac11443dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 938 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dfs@ukgateway.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com>, Steven Pampling wrote: > On 25 Dec, Dave Symes wrote: [Snip] > > Thank you for that thought Ian, unfortunately it doesn't actually work > > either from the CLI, or Desktop as an Obey file. (Dunno why). > Possibly because you aren't using the command on RISC OS 5 on an Iyonix? But Mr P, My RO 3 User Guide lists *Speaker as a legit command (Page 480) "*Speaker Turns the internal speaker(s) on or off." > > However, prompted by your posting, I went into the loft and found my > > old RO 3 User guide, and I've given her two Obey files with Audio ON > > and Audio Off. That does work. > Consistency - lovely innit? > > Seasons greetings and thanks for the prompt. > Merry Skipmas. > (That does mean something...) And as a totally OT footnote. (Sorry Mr DP, a one off) Remember the few days ago reinstall of XP...? Ovation Pro and DPLngscan for Windows reinstalled okay and I thought it was all finished, until I came to Hotsync my PDA, that turned into a nasty mess that even an uninstall/reinstall of the Palm (PC side software) wouldn't sort. My profile was corrupted, so I had to create a new profile, shove my Databases etc into the new profile, delete the corrupt profile, then rename the new profile the same as the old one so the PDA would work with it. Bring back the Biro I say... Merry Chrimble. Dave S -- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:24:42 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GysmY-1Omknw-06-8gP.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:24:42 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GysmY-1Omknw-06-8gP; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:34:34 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GysmY-1Omknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:34:34 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GysmY-0003J8-Ak for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:34:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9718857AEFF; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24851-04; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 676D757BF04; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:32:52 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6B61157AEFF for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24614-01 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ranger.systems.pipex.net (ranger.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.32]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 31D5D56EB4B for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from RiscPC (85-210-62-6.dsl.pipex.com [85.210.62.6]) by ranger.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A02E00032B for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 16:33:48 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 15:16:52 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4e9ac11443dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9ac11443dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 939 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net On 25 Dec, Dave Symes wrote: > My profile was corrupted, so I had to create a new profile, shove my > Databases etc into the new profile, Tut, There is a bit called "All Users" - it dies less often than the rest. -- Steve Pampling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:25:03 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gytoc-4JFVbs-02-GAr.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:25:03 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gytoc-4JFVbs-02-GAr; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:40:46 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gytoc-4JFVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:40:46 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gytob-0002Qc-Rn for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:40:46 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1691D57C77C; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:39:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10842-01-11; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:39:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 36AC857C771; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:39:00 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B598E57C70E for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:39:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10561-01 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:39:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7F80857BE45 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:39:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from lowrys.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.208] helo=a9.lowrys.demon.co.uk) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1Gytnq-000MFv-It for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:39:59 +0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Ian Lowry X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.36 Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:38:55 GMT Message-ID: <945ede9a4e.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9abfe3b5dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4e9abfe3b5dfs@ukgateway.net> X-Organization: Matchstick User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/4.24 (MsgServe/3.27S) (RISC-OS/4.42) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 940 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In message <4e9abfe3b5dfs@ukgateway.net> Dave Symes wrote: >> Try *Audio ON/OFF > >> Nadolig llawen, >> Ian > > Sorry Ian, I am now confused. > In my previous posting which you quote, I say (See above within ****) > > You are saying? Well, I think it is obvious! I5 is Christmaw Day and my eyes have bevome totally disconnected from my wetware. I promise not to post again until fully recovered. Grovelling apologies, Ian -- I wish someone would give me the answer. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:25:24 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gyugt-2e2GPo-01-FIa.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:25:24 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gyugt-2e2GPo-01-FIa; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:36:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gyugt-2e2GPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:36:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gyugs-0000Eb-Ie for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:36:50 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BA61D57BFD2; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24678-02; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A04E57C1DB; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:35:08 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D114E57BFD2 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:35:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24536-02 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:35:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8551357BEB4 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:35:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.39]) by mk-ironport-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 25 Dec 2006 18:36:06 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAACyoj0XUSnInh2dsb2JhbACOCgEJDio Received: from 88-105-153-147.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.153.147]:10205 helo=dave.nom) by mk-smarthost-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GyugA-000ALN-7B for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:36:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:34:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9ae37c2cdfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <945ede9a4e.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9abfe3b5dfs@ukgateway.net> <945ede9a4e.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 941 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dfs@ukgateway.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <945ede9a4e.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk>, Ian Lowry wrote: > In message <4e9abfe3b5dfs@ukgateway.net> > Dave Symes wrote: > >> Try *Audio ON/OFF > > > >> Nadolig llawen, > >> Ian > > > > Sorry Ian, I am now confused. > > In my previous posting which you quote, I say (See above within ****) > > > > You are saying? > Well, I think it is obvious! I5 is Christmaw Day and my eyes have > bevome totally disconnected from my wetware. I promise not to post > again until fully recovered. > Grovelling apologies, > Ian No need to apologise Ian, I wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something. Cheers Dave S -- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:28:21 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GzGfp-4CD000-08-AMg.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:28:21 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GzGfp-4CD000-08-AMg; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:05:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GzGfp-4CD000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:05:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GzGfo-0004Gn-Ph for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:05:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3FB6B57B64C; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:04:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30498-01-6; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:04:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DFCE357C068; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:04:11 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:03:29 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AD47857B64C for ; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30324-05 for ; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6223A579E1A for ; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.47]) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 26 Dec 2006 18:04:25 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABrzkEXUSnIvh2dsb2JhbACCS4s+AQkOKg Received: from 88-105-253-206.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.253.206]:10002 helo=dave.nom) by mk-smarthost-8.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GzGf3-000N31-F6 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:04:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 18:04:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9b649580dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9ac11443dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 942 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dfs@ukgateway.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com>, Steven Pampling wrote: > On 25 Dec, Dave Symes wrote: > > My profile was corrupted, so I had to create a new profile, shove my > > Databases etc into the new profile, > Tut, > There is a bit called "All Users" - it dies less often than the rest. "All Users" What's that, and where? If you mean Documents and Settings-All Users... There's nothing Palm in there. Dave S -- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:30:03 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GzWPD-2c5000-03-BgK.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:30:03 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GzWPD-2c5000-03-BgK; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:53:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GzWPD-2c5000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:53:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GzWPC-0000k8-VF for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:53:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 603E557CB95; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28705-01-6; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:52:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0908557CCCE; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:51:23 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 948E757CB95 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28537-01 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from galaxy.systems.pipex.net (galaxy.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.31]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5F8DF57C8BD for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from RiscPC (85-210-62-6.dsl.pipex.com [85.210.62.6]) by galaxy.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52A6CE0004BE for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:52:22 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 23:54:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9b84a1dbsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4e9b649580dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9ac11443dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9b649580dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 943 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net On 26 Dec, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com>, > Steven Pampling wrote: > > On 25 Dec, Dave Symes wrote: > > > My profile was corrupted, so I had to create a new profile, shove my > > > Databases etc into the new profile, > > Tut, > > There is a bit called "All Users" - it dies less often than the rest. > "All Users" What's that, and where? > If you mean Documents and Settings-All Users... There's nothing Palm in > there. The would be because you allowed it to go into a specific user profile directory when you did the install... People are free to have the same amount of fun on RISC OS [1] if using the Select Adjust branch. :-) [1] Except you can't rely on RISC OS to corrupt things. -- Steve Pampling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 12:30:07 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1GzXWd-3Qpknw-02-AYu.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:30:07 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1GzXWd-3Qpknw-02-AYu; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:04:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1GzXWd-3Qpknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:04:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1GzXWd-0001bV-1I for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:04:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BBB1C57C694; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:03:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10412-03; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:03:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 88E8457C8E2; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:03:50 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:03:07 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DE24857C694 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10215-01-11 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:03:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.38]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8098C57C62A for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com ([212.74.114.48]) by mk-smarthost-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com with ESMTP; 27 Dec 2006 12:04:04 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAErvkUXUSnIwh2dsb2JhbACCS4s/AQkOKg Received: from 88-105-255-112.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com ([88.105.255.112]:10141 helo=dave.nom) by mk-smarthost-9.mail.uk.tiscali.com with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1GzXTm-0009T4-IK for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:01:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:38:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9bc51371dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4e9b84a1dbsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9ac11443dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9b649580dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9b84a1dbsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 944 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dfs@ukgateway.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net In article <4e9b84a1dbsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com>, Steven Pampling wrote: > The would be because you allowed it to go into a specific user profile > directory when you did the install... At install I get a choice of where I want the .exe and other crud put, but don't get a choice of where the installer puts other stuff(In Docs and Settings for example). Dave S -- From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Dec 27 21:11:36 2006 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1Gzfw7-0Uz000-07-Afw.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 21:11:36 +0000 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1Gzfw7-0Uz000-07-Afw; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 21:03:43 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1Gzfw7-0Uz000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 21:03:43 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1Gzfw6-0001ec-Dk for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 21:03:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 121A857B8D2; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:02:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09480-03; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:02:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D796057C2B6; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:02:18 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:01:36 -0500 (EST) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 004FE57B8D2 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09136-01 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:01:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from galaxy.systems.pipex.net (galaxy.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.31]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B597757C2B5 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 16:01:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from RiscPC (85-210-62-6.dsl.pipex.com [85.210.62.6]) by galaxy.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6EF7E000D56 for ; Wed, 27 Dec 2006 21:02:33 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:00:33 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: CrossStar Message-ID: <4e9bf301f5steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4e9bc51371dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <4e9a620af6dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9a6f615fIan.Hartley12@btinternet.com> <4e9a9c27fedfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9aacfa86steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9ac11443dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9ad15d30steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9b649580dfs@ukgateway.net> <4e9b84a1dbsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4e9bc51371dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net X-archive-position: 945 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at avenirtech.net On 27 Dec, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <4e9b84a1dbsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com>, Steven Pampling > wrote: > > The would be because you allowed it to go into a specific user profile > > directory when you did the install... > At install I get a choice of where I want the .exe and other crud put, > but don't get a choice of where the installer puts other stuff(In Docs > and Settings for example). Right click Start, Click explore, then explore to appropriate directory, click item, CTRL-X, explore to All users, explore to appropriate directory, click CTRL-V Interesting idea for moving shortcuts from one directory to another. :-) Know thine enemy. -- Steve Pampling